Martin Shaw
Western Thunderer
Img#2972/3/4, the train is taking the Up Netley line at Fareham East heading for St Denys and Southampton Central, the three doll bracket signal in the background of #2972 is the clue.
Martin
Martin
Prototype Tim Mills' Photos
- Thread starter oldravendale
- Start date
AJC
Western Thunderer
I’ll look forward to the additional pictures. To be fair to the City, for all the acts of architectural and historical vandalism that have been committed and sanctioned over the last 70 years, the Solent Mills aren’t on them. They were situated within the port complex, ABP had the development rights and (I believe) an emergency listing application never made it to the Secretary of State - most such applications are speculative, detailed recording is an option instead (and often it’s preferable as big industrial buildings aren’t easy for reuse). That’s not necessarily a popular opinion. A colleague was involved in a similar exercise for the Colman’s Mustard site, the same applies, there, only limited protection was deemed appropriate for the industrial part of the site: its impact on the substantial remains of a medieval priory within the development area were a more powerful consideration. These things are compromises.
The temporary’ Sun lasted nearly 50 years, which, given where it was, latterly with a dual carriageway in front of it (the traffic system is on the council: I survived it on the bike for years, but it’s not fun to negotiate), is not bad going. I’ll spare you any more, having taught about the medieval city, drank with half the archeological unit, and played cricket with them and their predecessors, I’m probably too well informed…
Adam
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76043
Western Thunderer
I stumbled upon Kunstsilo in Kristiansand, Norway, had only been open a week, amazing conversion of a grain silo on the docks into a contemporary art gallery. Shows what can be done, just like Tate Modern and The Baltic, Gateshead.
Then again there's no money about and Southampton Art Gallery is very nice if a little too small.
Tony
Then again there's no money about and Southampton Art Gallery is very nice if a little too small.
Tony
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Osgood
Western Thunderer
Part of the bank of grain silos at the Shredded Wheat factory at Welwyn Garden City is listed, and a scheme was drawn up to incorporate them into the public space part of the overall site redevelopment (mainly residential) - the original scheme stalled and the site is now under new ownership with a revised planning application anticipated.
www.wheatquarter.com
We were working with the original site developer to return the 1934 Fowler diesel that worked here from new until rail traffic ceased in 1974, together with a BR bulk grain wagon from Mangapps, for a working display as part of the WGC centenary celebrations - we inspected the remaining inset track and worked up a plan - but Covid and then most likely site redevelopment planning politics got in the way. Maybe, one day....
Wheat Quarter. Welwyn Garden City | Treble Eight Group
The Wheat Quarter site presents an exciting opportunity to deliver a major new mixed used quarter in a key commuter town with the benefit of an extant planning consent. The site is located in the town of Welwyn Garden City, located in the county of Hertfordshire. 811 residential dwellings, made...
www.wheatquarter.com
We were working with the original site developer to return the 1934 Fowler diesel that worked here from new until rail traffic ceased in 1974, together with a BR bulk grain wagon from Mangapps, for a working display as part of the WGC centenary celebrations - we inspected the remaining inset track and worked up a plan - but Covid and then most likely site redevelopment planning politics got in the way. Maybe, one day....
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David Waite
Western Thunderer
Question not train related,
What are the two boxes either side of the lamp next to the Mini in the middle of the road?
David.
What are the two boxes either side of the lamp next to the Mini in the middle of the road?
David.
AJC
Western Thunderer
A traffic island - meant for pedestrian convenience. It’s always been quite a busy road (there’s traffic lights there now serving the same purpose).
Adam
David Waite
Western Thunderer
Osgood
Western Thunderer
There is no money about, but:
Norway took an off-the-shelf investment fund proposal that had been worked up for (I think) the Alberta Tar Sands Project but not taken up, and applied it to their North Sea oil and gas interests - investing the entire State revenue from oil production and spending the interest on beneficial projects that would likely not happen if left to private investment.
So now Norway has a huge fund (search for Norway oil fund) and they don't even spend all the interest, so the fund keeps growing - hence their ability to support otherwise unviable projects that benefit the community (I have no idea if the silo project above received any support from the fund).
Now just imagine if the UK, like Norway, had invested all of the revenue from North Sea oil / gas and were busy spending only the interest........
AJC
Western Thunderer
Pedestrian safety! They’re internally lit displaying the words ‘Keep Left’ as an instruction to road traffic after dark. You’d see an arrow these days. The relevant bit of the Highway Code explains how they’re meant to be used: Rules for pedestrians - Crossings (18 to 30).
Adam
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oldravendale
Western Thunderer
Some wider food for thought among these comments. However, first a thank you to Martin for identifying the location of that photo. Such sleuthing is very welcome.
Adam, @76043 , @Osgood , David and Adam - There's some really interesting stuff here. I remember the Baltic Mills so well from my first visit to Newcastle as a very young rep. That part of the city looked so different at the time and was still in the earliest stages of being gentrified. The landscape there would be so much poorer without that imposing building. I probably also commented rather out of turn about the Solent Mills as they are not on my doorstep and there were clearly good reasons for their demolition. My views are rather created by the acts of corporate vandalism I've personally witnessed over the years.
However, there is some inspiring stuff out there and for that we should be grateful. Examples here show how it's possible to re-use some of these huge buildings. As for the Norwegian oil industry - that's what's called forward planning and long term investment. Talk to most politicians and heads of business in the UK and they won't understand what you're talking about!
That's an interesting little conversation late in the thread. It just demonstrated how something we consider so everyday and normal is original to someone outside our parochial environment. I hope your questions have been satisfactorily answered, David.
E4 32510 photographed in Southampton Docks from The Solent Limited on 30th April 1961. This had been allocated to Eastleigh since at least 1948 and was in and out of store there, finally being withdrawn in September 1962. (BR Database and SLS). It arrived in Eastleigh Works in September 1962 (RO) and was scrapped in October. (BR Database).
The Solent Limited visited Eastleigh Works. The air smoothed casing of West Country 34020 Seaton in Eastleigh on 30th April 1961. Note another, unidentified casing behind. Seaton had been at Nine Elms since June 1955 and transferred to Exmouth Junction in May 1962. It was withdrawn in September 1964. (SLS). It was noted intact at Bird’s, Binea on 13th December 1964 (LCGB) and reported as scrapped some time the same month. (BR Database).
Rebuilt West Country 34093 Saunton undergoing overhaul in Eastleigh Works on 30th April 1961. 34020 was allocated to Nine Elms in June 1958 and moved to Eastleigh in September 1964. It was withdrawn in July 1967. (SLS). It was scrapped at Cashmore’s, Newport in March 1968. (BR Database).
Brian
Adam, @76043 , @Osgood , David and Adam - There's some really interesting stuff here. I remember the Baltic Mills so well from my first visit to Newcastle as a very young rep. That part of the city looked so different at the time and was still in the earliest stages of being gentrified. The landscape there would be so much poorer without that imposing building. I probably also commented rather out of turn about the Solent Mills as they are not on my doorstep and there were clearly good reasons for their demolition. My views are rather created by the acts of corporate vandalism I've personally witnessed over the years.
However, there is some inspiring stuff out there and for that we should be grateful. Examples here show how it's possible to re-use some of these huge buildings. As for the Norwegian oil industry - that's what's called forward planning and long term investment. Talk to most politicians and heads of business in the UK and they won't understand what you're talking about!
That's an interesting little conversation late in the thread. It just demonstrated how something we consider so everyday and normal is original to someone outside our parochial environment. I hope your questions have been satisfactorily answered, David.
E4 32510 photographed in Southampton Docks from The Solent Limited on 30th April 1961. This had been allocated to Eastleigh since at least 1948 and was in and out of store there, finally being withdrawn in September 1962. (BR Database and SLS). It arrived in Eastleigh Works in September 1962 (RO) and was scrapped in October. (BR Database).
The Solent Limited visited Eastleigh Works. The air smoothed casing of West Country 34020 Seaton in Eastleigh on 30th April 1961. Note another, unidentified casing behind. Seaton had been at Nine Elms since June 1955 and transferred to Exmouth Junction in May 1962. It was withdrawn in September 1964. (SLS). It was noted intact at Bird’s, Binea on 13th December 1964 (LCGB) and reported as scrapped some time the same month. (BR Database).
Rebuilt West Country 34093 Saunton undergoing overhaul in Eastleigh Works on 30th April 1961. 34020 was allocated to Nine Elms in June 1958 and moved to Eastleigh in September 1964. It was withdrawn in July 1967. (SLS). It was scrapped at Cashmore’s, Newport in March 1968. (BR Database).
Brian
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Martin Shaw
Western Thunderer
To add to Scanlon's comment, (3)2510 was the E4 that briefly went to the Isle of Wight from 1947 to 1949, without much success according to Messrs Maycock and Silsbury.
Martin
oldravendale
Western Thunderer
Roger @Scanlon - Thank you for your advice about those E4s. I must admit to not looking them up to confirm the class so the error is all mine. I've corrected by way of "Edit".
Martin @Martin Shaw - I didn't know that the E4 went to the IOW so that nugget will be added to the details. Thanks again.
An unidentified 57XX pannier tank in Eastleigh Works on 30th April 1961. There’s another behind and to the left. Does anyone have any idea about what the gear wheel to the left of the loco and immediately below the bunker is? In ignorance I'm wondering whether it's to do with the chain driver valve gear of a WC/BB. It certainly has nothing to do with a pannier tank!
Urie S15 30503 is here undergoing overhaul at Eastleigh Works on 30th April 1961 (note “503” chalked on the frames). It had pretty much always been a Feltham engine – at least since January 1948 – and was withdrawn in June 1963. (BR Database and SLS). The SLS report the loco at Eastleigh “waiting works or scrap” on 11th September 1963 and the RO that it was scrapped at Eastleigh week ending 5 October 1963.
An unidentified but original Bulleid WC/BB undergoing overhaul at Eastleigh Works on 30th April 1961. As the casing for 34020 was photographed on the same day by Tim this is quite possibly the same engine but we know there was at least one other casing in the photo so there can be no certainty.
Brian.
Martin @Martin Shaw - I didn't know that the E4 went to the IOW so that nugget will be added to the details. Thanks again.
An unidentified 57XX pannier tank in Eastleigh Works on 30th April 1961. There’s another behind and to the left. Does anyone have any idea about what the gear wheel to the left of the loco and immediately below the bunker is? In ignorance I'm wondering whether it's to do with the chain driver valve gear of a WC/BB. It certainly has nothing to do with a pannier tank!
Urie S15 30503 is here undergoing overhaul at Eastleigh Works on 30th April 1961 (note “503” chalked on the frames). It had pretty much always been a Feltham engine – at least since January 1948 – and was withdrawn in June 1963. (BR Database and SLS). The SLS report the loco at Eastleigh “waiting works or scrap” on 11th September 1963 and the RO that it was scrapped at Eastleigh week ending 5 October 1963.
An unidentified but original Bulleid WC/BB undergoing overhaul at Eastleigh Works on 30th April 1961. As the casing for 34020 was photographed on the same day by Tim this is quite possibly the same engine but we know there was at least one other casing in the photo so there can be no certainty.
Brian.
AJC
Western Thunderer
So interesting to see the partially undressed Bulleids.
My reading of the plate on the pannier is 367x (the 6 and 7 are clear, the 3 can't be 5, which is impossible, and certainly isn't a 4 which isn't). The last figure may well be a 1 - 3671 was one of the panniers inherited by the Southern with the closure of Pen Mill shed at Yeovil, 3679 was at Exmouth Junction from 1959, apparently, but none of the others in the 367x range were shedded on the Southern, so I'd wager on it being one of those two..
Hope that's of some help?
Adam
My reading of the plate on the pannier is 367x (the 6 and 7 are clear, the 3 can't be 5, which is impossible, and certainly isn't a 4 which isn't). The last figure may well be a 1 - 3671 was one of the panniers inherited by the Southern with the closure of Pen Mill shed at Yeovil, 3679 was at Exmouth Junction from 1959, apparently, but none of the others in the 367x range were shedded on the Southern, so I'd wager on it being one of those two..
Hope that's of some help?
Adam
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timbowales
Western Thunderer
Re the gear wheel and the pannier, perhaps Eastleigh were experimenting with a clockwork version?
Coat, hat, door........
Coat, hat, door........
Dave Holt
Western Thunderer
I think the gear wheel may be part of a mobile boring machine or such. Besides the large gear there is a smaller ratchet and pawl mechanism, suggesting that the shaft can be turned a bit at a time? Perhaps the curved frame assembly, nearer the camera, is part of the same mechanism?
Dave.
Dave.
Martin Shaw
Western Thunderer
It would seem that there were three unrebuilt pacifics undergoing overhauls at Eastleigh on the 30/4/61.
34020 Seaton, Exmouth Junc, General Overhaul 7/4/61 - 27/5/61 including boiler change
34054 Lord Beaverbrook, Exmouth Junc, Light Intermediate overhaul 27/4/61 - 3/6/61 including boiler change
34106 Lydford, Exmouth Junc, General overhaul 24/4/61 - 16/6/61 retaining boiler.
From that it seems likely that the two boiler casings are from Seaton, as the photo shows and Lord Beaverbrook and they are the two locos in img#2989, imo Seaton in front. Of course whether you would consider an overhaul including swapping a boiler as a light intermediate one is a somewhat moot point, but that's what the book says.
Martin
34020 Seaton, Exmouth Junc, General Overhaul 7/4/61 - 27/5/61 including boiler change
34054 Lord Beaverbrook, Exmouth Junc, Light Intermediate overhaul 27/4/61 - 3/6/61 including boiler change
34106 Lydford, Exmouth Junc, General overhaul 24/4/61 - 16/6/61 retaining boiler.
From that it seems likely that the two boiler casings are from Seaton, as the photo shows and Lord Beaverbrook and they are the two locos in img#2989, imo Seaton in front. Of course whether you would consider an overhaul including swapping a boiler as a light intermediate one is a somewhat moot point, but that's what the book says.
Martin
oldravendale
Western Thunderer
Very helpful Adam @AJC so thank you . I'll add that to the description on the basis that it's a "probable".
I'll put your suggestion on one side (although you may be perfectly correct @timbowales .) In fact if it had been a Jinty you'd probably have got away with it!
Dave @Dave Holt I guess you may well be correct. In several visits to Eastleigh I don't remember seeing anything similar but that was, of course, over fifty years ago! Thanks for the suggestion.
Martin @Martin Shaw those details are much appreciated. What a shame we can't see the cabs of the locos - that would have made the final decision for me.
A forlorn T9 30707 awaiting scrapping in Eastleigh Works Yard on 30th April 1961. This had been a Bournemouth engine since October 1957 and was withdrawn in March 1961. (SLS). BR Database advise the loco was scrapped in May 1961 and the Railway Observer that this was done at Eastleigh week ending 20th May.
A regrettably very underexposed shot of USA 30073 on Eastleigh Shed having brought in The Solent Limited on 30th April 1961. Details are in post #3655.
D1 Class 4-4-0 31735 on Eastleigh Shed awaiting the call of the scrap man on 30th April 1961. This loco was allocated to Eastleigh in August 1959 but was recorded by the SLS as on shed but out of use in October the same year so possibly never turned a wheel in anger after the final allocation. It was withdrawn in April 1961 (SLS) and scrapped week ending 28th July 1961 at Eastleigh. (RO).
Brian
I'll put your suggestion on one side (although you may be perfectly correct @timbowales .) In fact if it had been a Jinty you'd probably have got away with it!
Dave @Dave Holt I guess you may well be correct. In several visits to Eastleigh I don't remember seeing anything similar but that was, of course, over fifty years ago! Thanks for the suggestion.
Martin @Martin Shaw those details are much appreciated. What a shame we can't see the cabs of the locos - that would have made the final decision for me.
A forlorn T9 30707 awaiting scrapping in Eastleigh Works Yard on 30th April 1961. This had been a Bournemouth engine since October 1957 and was withdrawn in March 1961. (SLS). BR Database advise the loco was scrapped in May 1961 and the Railway Observer that this was done at Eastleigh week ending 20th May.
A regrettably very underexposed shot of USA 30073 on Eastleigh Shed having brought in The Solent Limited on 30th April 1961. Details are in post #3655.
D1 Class 4-4-0 31735 on Eastleigh Shed awaiting the call of the scrap man on 30th April 1961. This loco was allocated to Eastleigh in August 1959 but was recorded by the SLS as on shed but out of use in October the same year so possibly never turned a wheel in anger after the final allocation. It was withdrawn in April 1961 (SLS) and scrapped week ending 28th July 1961 at Eastleigh. (RO).
Brian