Prototype Tim Mills' Photos

[Dog Star]

The Solent Limited visited Eastleigh Works. The air smoothed casing of West Country 34020 Seaton in Eastleigh on 30th April 1961. Note another, unidentified casing behind. Seaton had been at Nine Elms since June 1955 and transferred to Exmouth Junction in May 1967. It was withdrawn in September 1964. (SLS). It was noted intact at Bird’s, Binea on 13th December 1964 (LCGB) and reported as scrapped some time the same month. (BR Database).

Brian,

Please review this content for the dates make no sense as written. I suggest that the date of allocation to Exmouth is possibly wrong.

Regards, Graham

 

[oldravendale]

Whoops and thanks, Graham. Exmouth Junction was 1962 not 1967. Edited accordingly.

B

 

[oldravendale]

I'm just back from a pleasant if chilly week in the Cotswolds where a first visit to the Gloucestershire Warwickshire Railway was a must. I'm really impressed! The journey was through some beautiful countryside and the staff were all really friendly and happy to stand and chat. The buildings/tearoom/loos and parking are an example to lots of other heritage lines (including my beloved GCR). Not only that but I saw an Old Oak Common resident from years ago, Modified Hall 7903 then:



and now:



But rather more exciting from my point of view was 28XX 2-8-0 2807 which I photographed at Old Oak Common in August 1961.



then in Barry Scrapyard in November 1967:



and November 1968:



Here's a far from perfect picture of the loco I took last weekend.



Having arrived home yesterday afternoon Mrs D and I were due to catch an LNER train today from Kings Cross to Durham for a concert in Durham Cathedral. We booked at the beginning of April to ensure we had reserved seats.... You know what's coming, don't you? LNER cancelled our train yesterday evening but kindly informed us that we could take the earlier or later train using our existing tickets. On checking the LNER web site we found both trains "fully booked" so, as we didn't fancy spending the journey sitting on the floor we cancelled. The only people to come out of this with any credit are the organisers of the sell out concert who accepted our returned tickets for a full refund and will sell them again on the door tonight. We've lost our payment for an AirBnB and frankly I think LNER should be liable for consequential loss but, of course, they are not.

This would have been my first long distance train journey for years as I usually drive everywhere and over any distance but if the event had been pleasurable I'd have been more than happy to repeat the experience. In future I'll follow my normal process and drive.

Rant over (unless I think of something else... oh yes, there was an election, wasn't there...)

So rapidly moving on to more standard fare.

H15 4-6-0 30331 awaiting scrap in Eastleigh Shed Yard on 30th April 1961. This loco had been in and out of store at Salisbury where it was allocated in October 1950 and withdrawn in March 1961. (SLS). It was scrapped w/e 3rd June 1961 at Eastleigh. (RO).



King Arthur 30800 Sir Meleaus de Lille in store in Eastleigh Shed Yard on 30th April 1961. In all truth this loco is unlikely to be active again. It was allocated to Eastleigh in June 1959 and was withdrawn August 1961. (BR Database and SLS). It was noted by the SLS as out of use at the depot in September 1961 and by the Railway Observer as cut up at Eastleigh week ending 16th September 1961.



A line of locos at Eastleigh Shed on 30th April 1961 which Tim has as withdrawn, but far from it... See below. These include A1X 32646, M7 30328 and another M7. Behind them all is Standard Class 4 75066.

The A1X was allocated to Eastleigh in November 1959 and withdrawn in November 1963. (SLS). It went in to preservation and details are in 32646 (LBSCR 46 Newington, LBSCR 646, IoW W2, Iow W8 Freshwater & BR 32646)

Pull-push fitted M7 30328 was notionally still a Brighton engine at the time of the photo although it moved officially to Eastleigh three days after the photo, on 3rd May 1961. It went on to Bournemouth in July the same year and then Tunbridge Wells West in January 1963 where it was withdrawn the following March. It was scrapped week ending 15th June 1963 at Eastleigh. (RO).

The Standard 4 was reported in Eastleigh Erecting Shop on 5th March 1961 (SLS) so was almost certainly immediately out of Works. It had been allocated to Bournemouth since June 1959 and Eastleigh claimed it after Works where it was allocated in May 1961. It went to Basingstoke in December 1962 and back to Eastleigh in April 1963 where it was withdrawn in January 1966. (SLS). It was scrapped at Cashmore’s, Newport in April 1966. (BR Database).



Brian

 

[David Waite]

That’s a lovely colour photo you have taken of 7903 it is so shiny to my eyes it has a picture postcard
look about it with all the reflections and shadows well done.
David.

 

[Ian@StEnochs]

That’s a lovely colour photo you have taken of 7903 it is so shiny to my eyes it has a picture postcard
look about it with all the reflections and shadows well done.
David.

Just look at how every panel wrinkles between the rows of rivets too!

Ian.

 

[oldravendale]

Firstly many thanks for all the "Likes". Most unexpected. I could believe that you're pleased to see me back! In particular thanks, David, for your kind comment. I can assure you that the quality of the photo is not down to any skill on my part. And those wrinkles are indeed obvious, Ian, but would probably be unacceptable on a model.

I've had time to cool down a bit over our cancelled train yesterday. The situation brings to mind previous experiences in steam days when, if a train was cancelled a couple of coaches would be added to a following service or an extra would be put on. It was not at all unusual for long trains to be "pulled forward" when all coaches wouldn't fit the platform. I fear that, despite their run down state, British Railways were actually rather more customer focused and we expected that sort of treatment. The differences between "then" and "now" are probably more obvious to me as I've used the railway over long distances so rarely in recent years.

Anyway, moving on to the continuing story of Tim's photos.

0415 Class 4-4-2T 30584 awaiting scrapping at Eastleigh Shed on 30th April 1961. While working the Lyme Regis Branch home shed was Exmouth Junction where it was withdrawn in January 1961. (SLS). The SLS reported the loco to have been sent to Eastleigh in February 1961 when the Ivatt 2-6-2Ts were introduced to the Lyme Regis Branch. Then it was reported out of use at Eastleigh Shed in September 1961 and then in the Scrap Yard at Eastleigh in November. It was scrapped in December 1961. (BR Database).





Here’s another outlier – how it came to be kept as a single negative with the film of The Solent Limited we’ll now never know. It’s A4 60017 Silver Fox and clearly leaving Kings Cross but there’s no accompanying information about the date. It had been a Kings Cross engine since new and was transferred to New England in June 1963 where it was withdrawn in October the same year. (BR Database and SLS). In this photo it’s carrying a Kings Cross shed plate. There’s a curved ball with this one as the SLS report the loco went to St Margarets during w/e 26th October 1963 and after a few days work was returned south for scrapping so it was either operational as withdrawn or reinstated for a few days and then withdrawn. It entered Doncaster Works and was scrapped on 5th December 1963. (BR Database).



This is reported as T9 30117 on The Solent Ltd of 30th April 1961 at Highclere on the DN & S but it’s clearly actually Newbury. In the background is L1 31786 which picked the train up at Newbury and returned it to Waterloo. In post #3350 Martin Shaw put up a photo of the L1 at Tonbridge Shed carrying a "SPL6" disc and 70A (Nine Elms) shed plate so possibly associated with this train.



Brian

 

[oldravendale]

More here of The Solent Ltd.

These four photos are described as 30117 on The Solent Limited at Highclere on the D N & S on 30th April 1961.









Finally 30117, again on The Solent Limited either at Newbury GWR or possibly Highclere on the D N & S. I favour Highclere. Date again is 30th April 1961.



54XX 0-6-0PT 7443 carrying an 89B shed plate at Wrexham Shed on 7th May 1961. 89B was Croes Newydd shed code from 1960 and 7443 had been allocated there since February 1950. It was transferred to Stourbridge Junction in March 1963 and withdrawn in September 1964. (SLS). It was scrapped at Arnott Young, Bilston, in November 1964. (BR Database).



Brian

 

[timbowales]

That photo of 7443 caused me to get my Bachman 64xx out and check. I hadn't realised that there was a handrail on the fireman's side of the roof until now. Bachmann have it there, phew!
Modelling the Carmarthen/Llanelly area I can't justify any 64xx's but I can 74xx's.

 

[Martin Shaw]

Some further bits and pieces. My post #3350 shows 31786 at Tonbridge shed purportedly on the 23rd June 1961, which I think is incorrect, I also don't think it's in connection with "The Solent Limited" on the 30th April 1961, not least because that tour went nowhere near Tonbridge. I have found a tour, "The South Eastern Limited" that ran on the 11th June 1961 and started at Victoria and went via Dartford and Maidstone West to Paddock Wood. This first leg was hauled by L1 class 31786 and D1 class 31749 and the locos were detached at P Wood for the train to make a last trip along the Hawkhurst branch hauled appropriately by 01 class 31065 and C class 31592. It seems wholly logical for the locos to go to Tonbridge for turning and servicing as they were next required later in the day for the return leg from Roberstbridge to Charing Cross. I think the picture I posted shows 31786 at Tonbridge on the 11/6/61. I cannot find a reference to a tour on the 23/6/61 and the view of 31786 at Victoria has the two headboards , one with identical lettering as in my post.

That 31786 was also used on the April tour is not unsurprising, the L1's days were almost done.

In another book I have there is a picture of Highclere on the 1st April 1961 with the loop track still in situ whereas by the end of the month it had been lifted. The signalboxes at Highclere and Litchfield had both been closed in early 1955 despite the massive wartime expenditure on extended loops and new signalboxes. There was obviously no rush to remove redundant assets.
Regards
Martin

 

[oldravendale]

Thank you for your message Tim @timbowales . Your comment fills me with joy! That's exactly what Tim wanted his pictures used for.

Martin @Martin Shaw , thanks for yours as well. That would have been a bit of a coincidence if the photo of 31786 at Tonbridge had been associated with The Solent Ltd. As for the photos of Highclere Tim's pictures must provide an interesting comparison with your picture from 1st April the same year. They book end that month quite nicely.

56XX 0-6-2T 6694 at Wrexham on 7th May 1961. This was another Croes Newydd engine, being allocated there since at least 1947 and withdrawn in October or November 1963. (BR Database and SLS). It was scrapped at Ward’s, Killamarsh, Sheffield (RO) in February 1964. (BR Database).



43XX 2-6-0 7325 on Mold Junction Shed on 7th May 1961. It had been at Banbury Shed since October 1956, moved to Ebbw Junction, Newport in November 1961, then Severn Tunnel Junction in September 1962 and finally Pontypool Road in July 1963 where it was withdrawn in May 1964 (SLS) or April 1964 according to 7325 ex 9303 and sold for scrap to Woodham Bros at Barry. However it was purchased for preservation in 1974.



43XX 7314 at Chester Shed on 7th May 1961. It was allocated to Croes Newydd in June 1960, then Shrewsbury in October 1961, back to Croes Newydd in September 1962 and Shrewsbury the following November. It was withdrawn in March 1963. (SLS). The Railway Observer reported it on Swindon Works dump on 24th March 1963 and WHTS that it was cut up on 10th August.



Brian

 

[AJC]

A nice (relative) rarity in the form of the riveted mineral in front of 7325. An LNER 16 tonner, E290520. Just the 7,200 of those, unusual because they lacked the top flap door above the side door.

Adam

 

[oldravendale]

Apropos my post #3683 above I wonder how many have noted the complaints by our new Labour MPs about the cancellation of trains at short notice. Funny that, isn't it? No-one took any notice of my winge about LNER but now it involves MPs it's all over the news. That just about sums us up. Privilege will get you anywhere.

On a more positive note, once again thanks for yours, Adam @AJC . As always an interesting bit more info to add to the photo.

Brian

 

[simond]

If it’s any consolation, Brian, nobody takes any notice when I complain either.

 

[Barry37]

A nice (relative) rarity in the form of the riveted mineral in front of 7325. An LNER 16 tonner, E290520. Just the 7,200 of those, unusual because they lacked the top flap door above the side door.

Adam

Also worth noting that the white stripe indicating the end with a door, has been repainted less sloping than previously. The top LH end of the stripe then "pointed" to the top of the actual door (i.e. the hinges). Fully opening doors on steel minerals, were, I think, rare, if not non-existent, so there was no reason to indicate the actual door height on particular wagons.

 

[DougT]

Having arrived home yesterday afternoon Mrs D and I were due to catch an LNER train today from Kings Cross to Durham for a concert in Durham Cathedral. We booked at the beginning of April to ensure we had reserved seats.... You know what's coming, don't you? LNER cancelled our train yesterday evening but kindly informed us that we could take the earlier or later train using our existing tickets. On checking the LNER web site we found both trains "fully booked" so, as we didn't fancy spending the journey sitting on the floor we cancelled. The only people to come out of this with any credit are the organisers of the sell out concert who accepted our returned tickets for a full refund and will sell them again on the door tonight. We've lost our payment for an AirBnB and frankly I think LNER should be liable for consequential loss but, of course, they are not.

This would have been my first long distance train journey for years as I usually drive everywhere and over any distance but if the event had been pleasurable I'd have been more than happy to repeat the experience. In future I'll follow my normal process and drive.

Rant over (unless I think of something else... oh yes, there was an election, wasn't there...)

This is probably of no consolation, and isn’t entirely helpful now for the situation you found yourself in, but all LNER services have a coach (coach C) that on departure from origin is half unreserved, so even on a train that will show as fully booked, there will be at least about 40 seats that will be available. Of course, they may be occupied when you get on, but fully booked doesn’t mean ‘no seats are available’.

 

[40057]

Apropos my post #3683 above I wonder how many have noted the complaints by our new Labour MPs about the cancellation of trains at short notice. Funny that, isn't it? No-one took any notice of my winge about LNER but now it involves MPs it's all over the news. That just about sums us up. Privilege will get you anywhere.

On a more positive note, once again thanks for yours, Adam @AJC . As always an interesting bit more info to add to the photo.

Brian

Forgive me, but I don’t think that’s entirely fair.

It is indeed a privilege to serve as an MP — but to become one, you have to get elected — which means thousands of people have voted for you to be their representative. So the views of an MP do indeed have greater importance — because of that democratic mandate. It doesn’t mean a private individual’s views are unimportant — but they don’t carry the same weight, certainly not with news editors, as an elected representative speaking on behalf of tens of thousands.

That’s not privilege. That’s representative democracy.

 

[oldravendale]

Barry @Barry37 - Thanks for additional info about the mineral wagon. Safely tucked away with the rest of the info.

Doug @DougT . As a non-railway user I didn't have any knowledge of "Coach C" so for that I thank you, in the unlikely event that I venture to the rails again. I guess it's an attempt to cater for those whose train has been cancelled but in reality half a carriage will not take all the passengers from another train. Perhaps that should go under the heading of "Nice try". Although the time has now passed I think it unlikely that I'd have tried to catch the preceding or following train as the chance of getting a seat (having reserved seats on another train) must remain vanishingly low.

@40057 - You are, of course, entirely correct and most (but not all) of my comments were rather tongue in cheek. I must admit to being rather more concerned about the possibility of large development on the edge of our village. We and people like us move to villages in order to be part of a small community and I fear that will be lost in many cases. After all, the voting weight of the 5 or 600 in our village will not be worth considering against the numbers in the nearby connurbations. However, we are straying mighty close to a political discussion which is not appropriate on this site and I'll now shut up and will be making no further comment!

Class 2P 4-4-0 40658 at Chester Shed on 7th May 1961. It was allocated to Chester in July 1959, went in to store at the end of November 1958 and was withdrawn a year later. (SLS). It was observed in Crewe Works scrap yard on 4th June 1961 (SLS) and scrapped later the same month. (BR Database).



Manor Class 7800 Torquay Manor at Oswestry Shed on 7th May 1961. It was allocated to Oswestry in September 1958 and to Shrewsbury in February 1963 where it was withdrawn in August 1964. (SLS). It ended up at Cashmore’s, Great Bridge, where it was scrapped in October 1964. (BR Database).



2251 Class 0-6-0 3208 at Oswestry Shed and carrying the Oswestry 89D shed plate on 7th May 1961. It was allocated to Oswestry when new in October 1946. It moved to Machynlleth in July 1963 where it was withdrawn in My 1965. (SLS). The Railway Observer record it at Central Wagon, Wigan on 8th August 1965 and BR Database report the loco as scrapped in the same month.





Brian

 

[hrmspaul]

Also worth noting that the white stripe indicating the end with a door, has been repainted less sloping than previously. The top LH end of the stripe then "pointed" to the top of the actual door (i.e. the hinges). Fully opening doors on steel minerals, were, I think, rare, if not non-existent, so there was no reason to indicate the actual door height on particular wagons.

Steel wagons have a channel across the end so the door isn't full height. LNER Wood & steel Minerals, wooden hoppers, | NE274579

BR painting instructions are clear that the diagonal should go to the top of the door, not the top corner of the wagon. OK, not an instruction that was always followed, but it was in the vast majority of cases. This is a very nice example showing how the instruction was followed. And no. I've no idea why they thought it was so imporant!

Paul

 

[Barry37]

Steel wagons have a channel across the end so the door isn't full height. LNER Wood & steel Minerals, wooden hoppers, | NE274579

BR painting instructions are clear that the diagonal should go to the top of the door, not the top corner of the wagon. OK, not an instruction that was always followed, but it was in the vast majority of cases. This is a very nice example showing how the instruction was followed. And no. I've no idea why they thought it was so imporant!

Paul

So they do.
Though the previous painter apparently didn't know/or follow the instructions.

 

[Genghis]

Interesting comparison of 7314 and 7325, particularly the reach rod. Was 7314 lever reverse and 7325 screw?
David