Prototype Tim Mills' Photos

[oldravendale]

Thank you Tim @timbowales for correcting the loco number. I was feeling rather smug having just done the same thing myself on another picture so I really should have found this. The original commentary has now been edited and corrected. And then Dave @Dave Holt for enlarging the details of the picture which actually is 75023.

John @John Palmer . Once again you are providing so many details in your posts about which I had no prior information. Please keep the extra details coming on these S & D photos but thereafter any others where you may have a comment. I'll not remark on each individual detail but they add so much to the descriptions and are carefully preserved in the Properties/Details attached to each photograph. Also to Tony @76043 and Martin @Martin Shaw for extending the debate. Thanks too, Martin for the additional info on 75071. Just in the interests of accuracy can I check that the range of numbers you are describing should be 75065 - 75079 and not 75065 - 75059? All to be included in the details. If you can come back to us about that distant signal when you've checked and to which you refer to in post #3940 it'll be appreciated.

Standard Class 4 4-6-0 75073 approaching Evercreech Junction on the 12.20 to Bath Green Park on 9th June 1962. The loco was allocated to Bath Green Park in April 1957 and moved to Templecombe in November 1962 where it was withdrawn in January 1966 (SLS), going to T W Ward, Ringwood for disposal which was complete in April 1966. (BR Database).



The view from the train leaving Evercreech on 9th June 1962. The identity of the locomotive is unknown but it looks as though it might be a Standard Class 4 4-6-0.



Another view from the same train between Evercreech and Shepton Mallet on 9th June 1962.



Standard Class 5 73051 passing through Chilcompton on a Bath Green Park to Bournemouth West train on 9th June 1962. The loco was allocated to Bath Green Park when new in 1954 and spent it’s entire life there going in to store in early August 1965 and being withdrawn later the same month. (SLS). It was scrapped at Cashmore’s, Newport, in November the same year. (BR Database).



Brian

 

[Barry37]

The deductions that follow are based upon my copy of the 1961 WTT, and for that reason may be well adrift of the pattern of working in 1962. You have been warned!

Going by position of the sun, the most likely candidate for the train hauled by 75027 on the approach to Bath is the 1/10 Bournemouth West-Bristol, due into Bath at 4/22. The Midland bracket signal indicates that the train is routed to the departures platform, the more southerly of the two at Bath.

44560 is an authentic Somerset & Dorset locomotive, being one of five constructed for the Joint Line by Armstrong Whitworth of Newcastle in 1922, thereby leading to the appellation 'Armstrong' also being applied generally to Midland and LMS 4F 0-6-0s by S&D staff. The two gentlemen on the right may be lubricating the point switch by which they are standing, as I think I detect an oil can in the hand of the one on the right.

I suggest that 82004 is the same locomotive as can be seen in shot of 75027 arriving at Bath, and that this photograph shows the departure for Bristol of the same train from Bournemouth. This may imply that 41248 is hauling a (late?) arrival of the 3/30 ex Bristol, which would go on to form the 4/37 stopping train from Bath to Templecombe.

The stout post that can be seen towards the right of the picture showing 82004's departure carried a mechanical gong, lever number 24 in Bath Station box, alongside which number 25 controlled the nearby 'stop shunting' signal to inhibit shunting moves from Bath yard conflicting with engine movements from Bath shed to the Up Shunting Line, which is the track nearest to the photographer in the two shots of Wilton. My guess is that the gong was used to supply audible warning that the signalman would shortly be changing 25's aspect from clear (its usual aspect) to danger, thereby suspending shunting operations.

It is by no means impossible for a Kingmoor locomotive to have come as far south as Bath. Indeed, 44883 of Kingmoor shed (complete with snowplough!) was captured by Ivo Peters' camera descending the S&D bank into Bath from Devonshire Tunnel on 6 June 1953 with a train from Bournemouth. Bath seems to have had no compunction in borrowing 'foreigners' for a trip over the 'Dorset' if it helped to overcome a motive power shortage.

34041 Wilton was a frequent performer over the S&D, and was one of the four Bulleid Light Pacifics allocated to Bath from 1951 to 1954. The identity of the train Wilton has taken over from the Black Five is a puzzle, as the 1961 WTT doesn't reveal a 1O96, and six bogies is a light load for an inter-regional train over the S&D. 1O95 is the Down Pines, due into Bath at 3/25, and 1O97 is the Saturday Pines Relief, due into Bath at 3/52, having left Manchester at 10.55, and is possibly the incoming train to be seen in the second picture showing Wilton departing with 1O96.

The first picture of Wilton provides exceptionally good detail of Bath's arrangement for attaching a Whitaker tablet exchanger to a Light Pacific. It consists of what appears to have been a standard pocket bolted to the tender, into which the exchanger could be slotted, as the same kind of pocket can be seen on the bunker side in pictures of LMS Standard shunting tanks shedded at Radstock, the exchanger being required on these locomotives for collection of the banking engine tablet from the apparatus at Binegar (which then permitted the banking engine to return wrong road to Binegar having seen the train it was assisting over the sumit at Masbury).

S & D folklore has it, that "foreign" locos sometimes returned to their home shed with mysterious holes in the cab or tender side, where a tablet catcher was fixed during its exploration of the S & D.

 

[Dave Holt]

I understood from the Peter Smith books, that Bath shed had tablet catchers that could be clamped to the tender handrail for visiting locos which did not have a permanent mounting shoe, to avoid the need for drilling holes or welding as much as possible.
Dave.

 

[John Palmer]

Regret there's not much I can add regarding the four latest photographs of S&D locations, which I take to form a record of the photographer's progress to Bath on the 12/3 Templecombe-Bath service, shown in the 1961 WTT as departing Evercreech Junction at 12/24.

The second photograph shows Bridge 107, known as Park Bridge, and carrying a farm track over the railway that led ultimately to Evercreech Park Farm; it was the first bridge encountered on the Bath Extension following its divergence from the route of the Somerset Central Railway at Evercreech Junction North.

The third photograph shows Prestleigh Viaduct, Number 95 on the S&D Bridge List. Deterioration in its condition following closure required its demolition, regrettably. The train is here upon the lengthy section of 1 in 50 up gradient between Evercreech New and Shepton Mallet.

I've not been able to identify the train being hauled by 73051 in the fourth photograph. Assuming this is another shot showing the progress of the 12/3 ex Templecombe service, it is likely to have been taken at about 1 o'clock, when the call at Chilcompton fell due. Unfortunately the 1961 WTT shows no local S&D service due to call at Chilcompton around this time, leaving the 7.35 Nottingham-Bournemouth service as a possible candidate. The 1958 marshalling circular gives a 10 carriage formation for this train, which, with Class 5 haulage, would have necessitated an assisting engine. OTOH, on 11 August 1962 this service was 7F-hauled and loaded to only 8 bogies. Such a load, if it did not exceed 270 tons, would have been treated as falling within the unassisted capacity of a Class 5 so, whilst unlikely, it is not impossible that this was the train in 73051's charge.

I understood from the Peter Smith books, that Bath shed had tablet catchers that could be clamped to the tender handrail for visiting locos which did not have a permanent mounting shoe, to avoid the need for drilling holes or welding as much as possible.
Dave.

There were a variety of mountings for the Whitaker exchanger, including the 'pocket' type fitted to Wilton as seen in image #3188, for which several holes would need to be drilled for a secure fixing. Fortuitously, I've just found in the Rail Online collection an excellent close-up of the the type attached to tender handrails; it can be found here. This seems to require only one hole for attachment of the stabilising bolt to the tender sidesheet. This particular variant was at some time fitted to the tenders of 40563, 40564, 40569 and 44102, all long term S&D residents, and I seem to have let myself in for the task of making one of these exchanger mounts for a friend's model of 40563. Yet another variant, apparently clamped either to the cab sidesheet or grabrail, can be seen attached to Midland 4F 43875 in Plate 58 of Ivo Peters' 'The Somerset & Dorset - an English Cross Country Railway'. The disadvantage of this design is that it involves a foul-to-gauge projection from the locomotive for so long as the exchanger is attached.

 

[Martin Shaw]

John
Despite your assertions to the contrary I had a trawl through Harman & Parkhouse this morning and found precisely one picture of a 9F with an assisting engine. This was on the 8th September 1963, the last up Pines when 92245 had Collett Goods 2219 tucked inside it from Evercreech Junc to Bath. I have no doubt that assisting engines were added to 9Fs on occasion but all the photo evidence I have looked at suggests it was in the very smallest of minorities. In the pictures where the complete train is visible the Bradford - Bournemouth is either 10 or 11 Mk1s, so well within the 410 ton load over Masbury and perhaps more relevant is the length of the loops on the single line between Templecombe and Blandford. The shortest of these was Shillingstone at a nominal 263 yards, just about long enough for 11 Mk1s and a 9F. I think we'll have to disagree about this one.

The comparison to other 9F operated trains was purely to illustrate the ease which trains far heavier than the S&D ever ran were pulled by a single locomotive with a superb boiler. The S&D was a moribund cross country railway that frankly still surprises me that it lasted until 1966, it can't have generated any profit or even operating surplus for many years, probably since the first war. What does one make of folk who seriously want to reopen it? That it was so well photograped has I feel contributed to a mythical sense to it.

The signalling at Templecombe (SR) and Templecombe Junc is somewhat confusing and wasn't helped by the late George Pryer. I have four published signalling diagrams for Templecome Junc and one for Templecombe itself,as well as the BR SR office copy box diagram and the SRS register to assist dissembling what happened. Prior to 1933 there wre two signal boxes on the former LSWR station, the main "A" box on the platform and the "B" box that controlled the connection down to the S&D at No 2 Junc, No 3 Junc was the connection to the goods yard and engine shed whilst No 1 Junc was an end on connection between the Dorset Central and Templecombe and Blandford railway Railways almost directly underneath the LSWR. It disappeared in January 1877 or 1887 depending on publication.. What follows is a timeline of signalling alterations which where applicable I will link to pics. In early 1933 the SR rationalised the S&D signalling, closing No 3 Junc and expanding No 2 Junc from 33 to 43 levers, a quantity reflected in all publications except Parkhouse which state 44 levers, this isn't incorrect but hides an important fact. This all opened on the 12/02/33. Nobody has explained where lever "A" came from but that it existed is reflected in all publications going back to George Pryer's original drawing used by OPC in 1979, and in some form or other by every subsequent publication that has signalling diagrams.

Templecombe B signal box was closed on th 7/5/33 when the the signalling would have been controlled by the "A" box but I think the SR decided that the braking distance from Templecombe Junc up distant to up home signal was inadequate, only 230 yards, so they added an outer distant on the up branch starting signal, the existing up distant becoming an up inner distant. This is the only justification I can think of for the addition of a lever "A", if it had been done as part of the rationalisation in early 1933 I think junction box frame would have been 1-44 instead of as it beacme A and 1-43. In 1938 the SR rebuilt both the station and the main line signalbox with an Odeon style building which was basically a straight replacement of the "A" box which unfortunately I can't find a diagram of. This is the errant diagram from George Pryers own series of books with as can be seen the distant arm underneath 41 labelled as 42 and therefore a repeater of the advanced starter and in a diagram dated 1950 which is wrong and led me astray, My apologies for doubting you John as you were right as well, although I feel the situation as shown may have existed for a few months.


Meanwhile two low quality captures from the BR SR box diagram dated 1961 that clearly identify the distant signals as outer and inner distants.


Brian

Yes 75065 -75079. Pic #3211 includes the signal at the end of the platform at Templecombe, this is undoubtedly Templecombe up branch starting signal, lever 41, with Templecombe Junc up branch outer distant signal, lever A, beneath it.

All mighty interesting stuff and far more rewarding than reinstating my porch ceiling.
Martin

 

[John Palmer]

Martin, I'd better explain that I was born and brought up within earshot of both the Bristol & Exeter and the S&D near Highbridge, and that from childhood onwards the S&D has inspired a deep affection that accounts for my readiness to rabbit on about the Joint Line far more than I should. This notwithstanding, I agree completely that its survival until 1966 is surprising, as it must have been apparent even before joint ownership that its prospects of long term commercial success were at best modest. However, in no way does that diminish its attraction to the enthusiast as a time capsule of Edwardian England that somehow survived into the post-war years. I'll hazard a guess that there will be plenty of people today who find it hard to believe that less than sixty years have passed since a proportion of an English railway's employees relied upon a goods train for delivery of their supply of potable water, but such was the case to 1966 at some of the remote crossings on the line to Highbridge.

Yes, I think we must continue to disagree about the extent of 9F double heading. My photographic quest ranged quite a lot wider than the Harman/Parkhouse Atlas to come up with a larger number of such instances than yours – and I hadn't even included the notorious case of the Collett being tucked between the Nine and its Liverpool train that so delayed the last Up Pines! Having made our respective cases let's leave it to other readers to judge.

Many thanks for the comprehensive additional information about the signalling arrangements between Templecombe station and Junction. I'd already been struck by the proximity of the Junction's Up Distant from its Up Home, which according to the Pryer S&D diagram is a distance of only 191 yards (299 minus 108; also so indicated in the second of your extracts from the 1961 diagram), so I was particularly interested by your observation that the distance from distant to home was 230 yards which, whilst still very short, may imply a different source of information or a re-siting of one/both of these signals.

Here I think I can usefully introduce some new material, in the shape of the BoT report on the 1894 accident at Templecombe, accessible from here, as it contains a plan showing the layout at what was then No.2 Junction, and gives a distance of 448 yards between No.2 Junction's Up Distant for the line from the LSW station and its related home signal. I'm having difficulty reconciling the 1894 accident report's description of the layout with yours of the A and B boxes at the LSW station, but, significantly, it does appear that at some date prior to the 1933 re-signalling there was a substantially greater distance between the signals mentioned.

Which begs the question of why, presumably in the course of the 1933 re-signalling, the Southern's signal engineer seems to have accepted placement of No.2 Junction's Upper Line Up Distant at no greater distance from its related home signal than 191 yards. It certainly isn't surprising that at some point thereafter this was recognised as providing an inadequate braking distance, and that the adopted remedy was to place an outer distant beneath the Up Branch Starting signal (41 on the Pryer diagram). That seems consistent with your thesis that at some date unknown Lever A was added to the No.2 Junction frame to control this additional distant, rather than that frame comprising Levers 1-44 from the outset.

What jars in this is the need for any additional lever to control the Outer Distant. In what circumstances will a Junction box signalman wish to clear the Outer Distant whilst leaving the Inner at danger? I can think of none. Assuming circumstances will arise in which it's appropriate for one of these distants to clear whilst the other remains at danger, will that not be accomplished by the slotting? I can't see any obvious reason not to couple both distants to the same lever and leave it to the slotting to deal with such contingencies. What am I missing?

Rum place, Templecombe.

 

[Dave Holt]

I never travelled over the S&D although I made several journeys on the Pines Express between Manchester and Bournemouth but, sadly, after it had been re-routed via Oxford and Reading West. However, I have read Peter Smiths books recounting his experiences as a fireman and driver in the latter days of the route.
If I recall correctly, he expresses the disappointment of many S&D enginemen that introduction of the 9Fs did not eliminate double heading, despite the locos being easily capable of taking summer trains over the Mendips single handed. I understood the problem being balancing availability of pilot engines at both Bath and Evercreech for non - 9F hauled trains. If a succession of non piloted 9F trains went one way, say south in the morning and piloted trains went north, there would be a shortage of pilots at Evercreech and vice versa. I also understand that the pilot engine crews were not over enthused, either.
Dave.

 

[Martin Shaw]

John
Many thanks for your latest, I will read the accident report with interest in due course.
It is usual for the interlocking between inner and outer distants to be arranged such that the inner distant is cleared before the outer distant. If they were both on the same lever this wouldn't be possible and the regulations were written so that the signalman observed directly or via repeater that the inner distant was clear before pulling the outer distant lever. It could be arranged electrically to operate from one lever but It would have been a more expensive solution at that time.

On a personal note my maternal grandparents moved to West Huntspill in 1962 so I went with Grandad to Highbridge quite a lot, he was pretty indulgent of his grandson's interest in railway things and because he was an umpire at the cricket club he knew a lot of the railwaymen in the area, it opened a lot of doors. I managed to see more or less the end of the S&D at Highbridge in the summer of 65, Warship and Westerns on the B&E and Ivatt tanks over the footbridge, it was a long time ago. I do however have this in my workshop to remind me of those times, my Grandad whose memory I treasure and the S&D.
Best wishes
Martin

 

[oldravendale]

It took me a while to catch up with all this extra information and in between times we've had Guildex and some things I had to deal with at the big railway in Loughborough plus an enjoyable time at Baker Street for a Hidden London tour. More to follow, eventually, about that. However here I am again.

Thanks Barry @Barry37. That's an interesting and quite believable bit of folklore. And to Dave @Dave Holt for the additional stuff. I certainly saw some Ivatt Class 4s at Eastleigh with fitted tablet catchers but I think that was after they'd left the M & GN. They were in pretty dismal condition.

Jon @John Palmer - such a lot of lovely stuff there. It's taken me a while to collect it all together in a form so I could file it against each photo but now it's done. Then Dave @Dave Holt and Martin @Martin Shaw with even more to add to it. Thank you all.

A view from the train with an unidentified locomotive but possibly a Standard Class 4 4-6-0 passing another Standard Class 4 4-6-0, 75072 near Midford on 9th June 1962. 75072 was a Bath Green Park loco and had been since June 1956 but it moved to Templecombe S & D in November 1962 where it was withdrawn in January 1966. (SLS). It was scrapped in April the same year at T W Ward, Ringwood. (BR Database).



Another view from the same train at an unknown location.



4F 0-6-0 44417 with a Standard Class 4, probably 75071, standing in the middle road. The 4F was leaving Wincanton for Evercreech Junction (only that Station Totem doesn’t look as though it could possibly be Wincanton so I suspect it’s leaving Evercreech Junction for Wincanton) and had been allocated to Templecombe from at least 1948. It was withdrawn from there in November 1962. (SLS). The Railway Observer advises it went to Derby Works for disposal, completed in May 1963. 75071 was allocated to Bath Green Park in June 1956 and then Templecombe S & D in November 1962. It was in store in June, reinstated on the LMR in July and allocated to Croes Newydd in August, all in 1964. It went to Stoke in June 1967 and was withdrawn the following August. (SLS). It was scrapped at Bird’s Long Marston at the end of February 1968.



I suspect this is a more likely location for the photo above. It’s Standard Class 5 73054 on the 9.55 Bournemouth West to Liverpool overtaking 4F 44417 at Evercreech Junction on 9th September 1962. For details on 44417 see my previous post. 73054 was allocated to Bath Green Park in April 1961, went in to store in August 1965 and was withdrawn at the end of the same month. (SLS). It was scrapped at Cashmore’s, Newport in October 1965. (BR Database).



Brian

 

[Dave Holt]

Brian.
The 4F and Std 4 are, as you surmise, at Evercreech. However, they are facing towards Bath, not Wincanton, which is the opposite way, with the Std 4 waiting in the banking/pilot engine siding between the platform roads.
Dave.

 

[John Palmer]

The train in the first shot is very close to Midford's Up Outer Home signal, and may well have been at a stand there waiting for 75072's train to clear the single line section between Bath Junction and Midford.

The second shot shows the train shortly after northbound departure from Wincanton. The bridge over which the leading carriage is passing is Bridge 134, known as Union girder bridge, and the signal ahead is Wincanton's Up Advanced Starting signal.

The third shot shows 44417 on an Up Passenger at Evercreech Junction. Conventionally the middle road here held trains engaged in Highbridge Branch workings and assisting engines, which is likely to be the duty on which 75071 is engaged. If this is a weekday picture then the Up Pines, due in at around 11.0, is likely to be the train that will receive 75071's assistance, but that complicates the identity of 44417's train – possibly the 10.20 ex-Templecombe terminating at Evercreech.

The fourth shot showing 73054 is also taken at Evercreech Junction, immediately adjacent to the junction points at which the Bath Extension diverged from the original Somerset Central line to Highbridge. The foreground stop blocks are for the trap spur off Cogan's siding, which trailed into the Down Main at this point. The more distant stop blocks are at the north end of EJ's middle road, unusually fitted with a coupling to secure stock standing on the 1 in 105 gradient here. 44417 is standing in EJ's Up Yard.

The date of this fourth shot is unlikely to be 9th September 1962, as this was the Sunday immediately following the last working of the Pines over the S&D on Saturday 8th September that year. The 1961 WTT has a 9.55 SO departure from Bournemouth West to Leeds; perhaps this is the train shown here. Could this be another picture from 9th June 1962?

To Martin (@Martin Shaw): many thanks for the explanation of practice on inner and outer distants; what you describe makes perfect sense as a route proving measure. You and I were both blessed with a maternal grandfather who indulged our railway interests, and mine took me on my first and last rides over the S&D, the first behind a Bulldog to Glastonbury: morning dew sparkling in bright spring sunshine and white streamers of exhaust steam evaporating in the willows bordering the watercourses of the Somerset Levels.

 

[oldravendale]

Thanks, Dave @Dave Holt for confirming location.

Another great post there from John @John Palmer . Much help indeed and thank you. I wonder if Tim was on the S&D for the final Pines on 8th September. Certainly there are two films of the S & D a month apart according to the notes. However, we already know that all too often the notes are retrospective and open to challenge. All the info will be pulled together and attached to the relevant photos. I love your memory of your trip on the S & D with your grandfather. Quite poetic. Ideally that needs adding to all the S & D photos. I may consider grouping them so that this sort of info can be spread across all the images. I'm still considering that.

A simple picture just made outstanding by the engineman leaning out of the cab. Standard 5 73054 again, this time at Templecombe Upper station on 9th September 1962. Details are above, attached to img3200 in post #3950.



Standard Class 5 73052 on the 9.50 Bath to Bournemouth West train at Evercreech Junction on 9th September 1962. It was allocated to Bath Green Park in June 1954, went in to store there in November 1964 and was withdrawn in January 1965. (SLS). It was scrapped in April 1965 at Buttigiegs in Newport. (BR Database).



With the information we've learned so far, thanks to John @John Palmer I believe Tim's info here cannot be accurate, certainly as far as the date is concerned. The notes which I've expanded are Standard Class 4 4-6-0 75071 and original condition Battle of Britain 34067 Tangmere on the Bournemouth West to Bath Pines Express at Evercreech Junction on 9th September 1962. I’m not comfortable with the description “Bournemouth West to Bath Pines Express” either as it stands. Was there an engine change at Bournemouth West in which case this is better described as 75071 and 34067 having taken over the Pines Express at Bournemouth West for the journey to Bath?

75071 was allocated to Bath Green Park in June 1956 and then Templecombe S & D in November 1962. It was in store in June, reinstated on the LMR in July and allocated to Croes Newydd in August, all in 1964. It went to Stoke in June 1967 and was withdrawn the following August. (SLS). It was scrapped at Bird’s Long Marston at the end of February 1968.

The Battle of Britain was at Salisbury from May 1961. It was withdrawn in November 1963. (SLS). In April 1965 the loco moved to Woodham's, Barry, and came out of the scrapyard in January 1981. For further details since leaving the scrapyard see 34067 Tangmere (SR 21C167, BR s21C167 & BR 34067)





Brian

 

[John Palmer]

An impressively dramatic view of 73054 at Templecombe, whose driver ought to be identifiable by those better acquainted than I with S&D crews. The 'Catch Points' notice refers to the trap in the outer road at Templecombe numbered 36 on the diagram @Martin Shaw has posted above. Located on the spur line curve, their visibility was somewhat obscured by the concrete parapet that can be seen beyond the notice. That obstruction was probably the reason for elevating the shunt disc (No.35 on Martin's diagram) on the approach to the trap, but despite the warnings provided by both disc and notice there was an occasion when 2P 40696 's tender came to grief on the trap.

The shot of 73052 is taken from the same position on Cogan's siding as the previous photograph showing 73054 and 44417. The bow tie signal was a well-known feature of Evercreech Junction North, and controlled a range of wrong road movements along the Down line, mostly across the Up Main towards the Down Yard. The context provided by the other photographs suggests that 73052 is hauling the 9.3 service from Bristol to Bournemouth West, in 1961 due into Evercreech at 11.3.

The two shots showing the Up Pines are taken at a spot midway between Park Bridge, previously seen from the other side in image #3194, and Pecking Mill Viaduct (No.105 on the S&D bridge list), which carried the Bath Extension over the A371, on which a car can be seen on the right of the second shot. If these pictures are all from the same S&D visit the presence of 75071 tends to bear out my surmise that in image #3199 she is standing on the middle road at Evercreech awaiting the Pines' arrival.

The Up Pines' point of origin was Bournemouth West, and the the Light Pacific will have been responsible for its haulage unassisted from there as far as Evercreech Junction, which was the point at which pilots were attached to northbound trains that required assistance to ascend the Mendips. Usually such assisting engines would remain attached until their train reached Bath, but exceptionally pilots might be detached at Binegar, first station to be reached after passing the summit at Masbury. Correspondingly, the majority of locomotives assisting southbound trains were detached at Evercreech Junction, although there was one train, a Down Birmingham, I think, whose pilot was detached at Shepton Mallet to relieve congestion at Evercreech.

This is the first time I recall seeing a picture showing 34067 Tangmere on an inter-regional train over the S&D, and I wonder whether there can be any doubt about her identification, as the locomotive pictured is not carrying the oval plaque typical of most Battle of Britain Light Pacifics, including Tangmere. By and large BoBs seem to have been a lot less common on the S&D than West Countries, though 34110 66 Squadron seems to have been a repeat visitor, and first and last employments of Light Pacifics on the line happen to have been drawn from the BoB membership.

 

[Dave Holt]

As John has stated, the northbound Pines (Express was a bit of a misnomer as it took about 7 hours to reach Manchester!) started at Bournemouth West (a terminus) and headed over the S&D to Bath, where it reversed, and then by the Midland line to Birmingham New Street where, presumably, it reversed yet again to reach Manchester. (In theory, it could have gone round via Aston and Perry Bar, as some Birmingham to Manchester trains did, but I don't know about the Pines.)
I travelled on the train several times over the years, but not over the S&D. By my first trip it had been re-routed via Oxford and Basingstoke. The earlier trips all had an EE Type 4 (later Class 40) to Oxford, routed via Crewe, Whitchurch, Market Drayton, Wolverhampton Low Level and Birmingham Snow Hill. From Oxford we had a rebuilt Bulleid pacific to Bournemouth. The train took the Reading West cut off, avoiding having to reverse at Reading General. We got off at Bournemouth Central, so never made it to West. After West closed, I believe the train terminated at Poole.
Here's 34040 being detached from the northbound service and heading to the shed at Oxford.

Later, the train ran via Reading General, where it reversed. I believe that the current Manchester to Bournemouth trains still do so, although they travel via Birmingham New Street.
Sorry for the deviation from topic.
Dave.

 

[40057]

It took me a while to catch up with all this extra information and in between times we've had Guildex and some things I had to deal with at the big railway in Loughborough plus an enjoyable time at Baker Street for a Hidden London tour. More to follow, eventually, about that. However here I am again.

Thanks Barry @Barry37. That's an interesting and quite believable bit of folklore. And to Dave @Dave Holt for the additional stuff. I certainly saw some Ivatt Class 4s at Eastleigh with fitted tablet catchers but I think that was after they'd left the M & GN. They were in pretty dismal condition.

Jon @John Palmer - such a lot of lovely stuff there. It's taken me a while to collect it all together in a form so I could file it against each photo but now it's done. Then Dave @Dave Holt and Martin @Martin Shaw with even more to add to it. Thank you all.

A view from the train with an unidentified locomotive but possibly a Standard Class 4 4-6-0 passing another Standard Class 4 4-6-0, 75072 near Midford on 9th June 1962. 75072 was a Bath Green Park loco and had been since June 1956 but it moved to Templecombe S & D in November 1962 where it was withdrawn in January 1966. (SLS). It was scrapped in April the same year at T W Ward, Ringwood. (BR Database).

View attachment 223653

Another view from the same train at an unknown location.

View attachment 223649

4F 0-6-0 44417 with a Standard Class 4, probably 75071, standing in the middle road. The 4F was leaving Wincanton for Evercreech Junction (only that Station Totem doesn’t look as though it could possibly be Wincanton so I suspect it’s leaving Evercreech Junction for Wincanton) and had been allocated to Templecombe from at least 1948. It was withdrawn from there in November 1962. (SLS). The Railway Observer advises it went to Derby Works for disposal, completed in May 1963. 75071 was allocated to Bath Green Park in June 1956 and then Templecombe S & D in November 1962. It was in store in June, reinstated on the LMR in July and allocated to Croes Newydd in August, all in 1964. It went to Stoke in June 1967 and was withdrawn the following August. (SLS). It was scrapped at Bird’s Long Marston at the end of February 1968.

View attachment 223650

I suspect this is a more likely location for the photo above. It’s Standard Class 5 73054 on the 9.55 Bournemouth West to Liverpool overtaking 4F 44417 at Evercreech Junction on 9th September 1962. For details on 44417 see my previous post. 73054 was allocated to Bath Green Park in April 1961, went in to store in August 1965 and was withdrawn at the end of the same month. (SLS). It was scrapped at Cashmore’s, Newport in October 1965. (BR Database).

View attachment 223651

Brian

In the second view from the train, the locomotive at the front has a low running plate — so not a BR standard. It could be 44417?

 

[oldravendale]

Thank you for your observation @40057. Having looked at that photo again I think you are probably correct, so not a Standard 4 4-6-0 as train engine. That certainly suggests it's a different train to the earlier views.

John @John Palmer - thanks again for the additional information. I agree that there doesn't appear to be a badge on the putative "Tangmere" so you may well be correct. I'll add your info to the photo details to make it a "possible" sighting. Your mention of 66 Squadron, which was quite a rare visitor in London, brings back memories of the loco in filthy condition leaving Seaton Junction on a train I joined at Axminster after visiting Lyme Regis. It's one of the best photos I ever took and has been on WT previously but IMHO worth another look. 34110 at Seaton Junction 29th August 1961.



Dave @Dave Holt - thanks for yours too. I have a movie of The Pines at Southampton on a date I can't remember headed up by an original West Country and slipping in a typical fashion as it left the station. I need to find that for a film show I'm due to give early next year.

Original Battle of Britain 34070 Manston entering Templecombe SR on 9th September 1962. It was allocated to Exmouth Junction in November 1961 and was withdrawn in August 1964. After a period at Woodham’s in Barry preservation followed – see https://preservedbritishsteamlocomotives.com/34070-manston-sr-21c170-br-s21c170-br-34070/



In the second picture is 34070 being passed by Merchant Navy 35021 New Zealand Line. 35021 had been a Bournemouth engine since June 1957 and was withdrawn at the beginning of August 1965. It was scrapped in October the same year at R S Hayes/Birds, Tremain Yard, Bridgend. (WHTS and BR Database).



S15 4-6-0 30844 in Templecombe Upper Yard being overtaken by West Country 34036 Westward Ho on 9th September 1962. The S15 was allocated to Exmouth Junction from at least 1946 and moved to Feltham in September 1963 where it was withdrawn in June 1964. (SLS). It went to Woodham’s at Barry where it was scrapped in January 1965. (WHTS and BR Database). 34036 was also an Exmouth Junction engine but from January 1958, went to Salisbury in November 1963, Eastleigh in September 1964 and Nine Elms in June 1966 where it was withdrawn on the last day of SR steam, 9th July 1967. (SLS). It was scrapped at Cashmore’s, Newport in February 1968. (BR Database).



Another shot of 30844 on a Templecombe to Salisbury freight train - in fact the same train as photographed above - at Templecombe High Level taken from the S & D on 9th September 1962.



Brian

 

[AJC]

In the second view from the train, the locomotive at the front has a low running plate — so not a BR standard. It could be 44417?

I must admit, I’d rather assumed that the shot in question was taken from the train shown in the other pictures at Evercreech with 44417, same stock type.

Adam

 

[76043]

That is a super shot of the Engineman leaning out of the Standard 5, one of the best yet I think. Would make a lovely print! The coffee table book surely beckons!
Tony

 

[oldravendale]

Thanks for the comment, Adam @AJC and for your kind thought, Tony @76043. A book (or perhaps two or three) of the best of these photos is certainly being considered. That's when all the additional comments will come in to their own in creating a decent description of each of the images. I want to get the black and whites on here first, though. Then there are the colour images...

Standard Class 2-6-0 76025 on the 9.5 am Templecombe to Bournemouth West train at Templecombe S & D on 9th September 1962. The loco was allocated to Bournemouth in May 1961 and withdrawn in October 1965. (SLS). It was scrapped at Cashmore’s, Newport, in February 1966. (BR Database).



On 9th September 1962 and Rebuilt West Country 34046 Braunton on a Salisbury to Yeovil train at Templecombe SR. The loco had lived at Bournemouth since March 1959 coincident with the rebuild. It was withdrawn in October 1965 (SLS) and went to Woodham Bros at Barry. Thereafter see 34046 Braunton (SR 21C146, BR s21C146 & BR 34046)



Castle 7009 Athelney Castle on the Cathedrals Express from the train at Reading on 9th September 1962. At the time of the photo it had been at Worcester since February 1962 and then was a Gloucester Horton Road engine from early November 1962 but moved to Old Oak Common in December the same year. It didn't last too long there, though, as it was withdrawn in early April 1963. (SLS). It went to Coopers Metals, Sharpness, where it was scrapped in August 1965. (BR Database).



Brian

 

[timbowales]

The first coach behind 76025 seems to be a Gresley full brake?