Prototype Tim Mills' Photos

[James Spooner]

That could be a regular Southend turn and not necessarily via LTS, they ran up the GEML to Shenfield and branched off. LTS services dropped off after Forest Gate and down to Barking but I recall that was generally freight only or stuff off the NLL in my day.

Liverpool street trains run to Southend Victoria, Fenchurch Street run to Southend Central and terminate at Shoeburyness.

In the 80's when I commuted the Southend trains were limited stoppers on the fast lines, Stratford, Ilford, Romford, Shenfield then all stations to Southend, off peak they ran on the slow lines and just ripped through all the other stations non stop.

View attachment 229765

That takes me back! In the seventies, in the rush hour, there were the ‘Billericay flyers’, all stations Southend to Billericay, then non stop to Liverpool St, then the semi fasts, all stations to Harold Wood, then Stratford and Liverpool St. As someone brought up in Shenfield at the time, I preferred the Norwich line services, which tended to provide the fast trains, including, from the mid seventies, the lovely class 312s…

Nigel

 

[mickoo]

That takes me back! In the seventies, in the rush hour, there were the ‘Billericay flyers’, all stations Southend to Billericay, then non stop to Liverpool St, then the semi fasts, all stations to Harold Wood, then Stratford and Liverpool St. As someone brought up in Shenfield at the time, I preferred the Norwich line services, which tended to provide the fast trains, including, from the mid seventies, the lovely class 312s…

Nigel

Just for closure and not to divert from Brians images, found the non stop shot head on (previous was going away) at Manor Park, I think line speed here was 75, narrow platforms and no silly yellow lines got your attention.

I suspect the 307 may not be at full speed as it may just have departed from Ilford.



It was followed by a 312 also non stop, the curved front used to make a distinctive warbling/whistling noise up close at high speed. It's going back many decades but my dim memory is that the 312 was traveling significantly faster and probably hadn't stopped at Ilford so may be a Colchester/Clacton express.

 

[Alan]

Those pics bring back memories of commuting between Goodmayes and Forest Gate in the very early 70s.

 

[PMP]

Adam,
I'll save you the trouble, it was just the one photo taken at Long Sidings, Peak Forest. They are labelled Non Pool and the lettering on these examples is quite different to the one with 84024.

View attachment 229136​

That's my Airfix reflex triggered...

 

[oldravendale]

Thank you Martin @Martin Shaw . Additional and correcting details always welcome.

That's wonderful stuff, Mick @mickoo. Photos are so good! I studiously avoided photographing those EMUs, or any other for that matter. As it happens, though, hoping for some steam one year at Stratford I photographed a couple of 312s in original maroon.

H Class 0-4-4T 31324 on Ramsgate shed on 17th August 1958. The loco was allocated to Ramsgate in June 1952, moved to Nine Elms in June 1959, then Tonbridge February, Ashford April, both 1960, and back to Tonbridge in February 1961 and finally Three Bridges in May 1962 where it was withdrawn in July the same year. (SLS). It then went to Eastleigh Works where it was cut up week ending 10th August 1962. (RO).



Class L1 31781 with H Class 31324 and 31500 at Ramsgate on shed on 17th August 1958. For details of the L1 see the previous post and for 31324 see above. 31500 was allocated to Ramsgate from October 1955, then Nine Elms in June 1959. By November the same year it was allocated to Tonbridge where it was withdrawn in June 1961. (SLS). The Railway Observer reports it was cut up at Ashford week ending 1st July 1961.




On shed at Ramsgate on 17th August 1958 is N Class Mogul 31411 clearly carrying a 73A Stewarts Lane shed plate. It was allocated there by January 1948 and moved to Redhill in July 1963 before ending up at Guildford in January 1965 where it was withdrawn in April 1966. (SLS). It was scrapped at Cashmore’s, Newport, in September 1966. (BR Database).



This is believed to be Standard Class 2 2-6-2T 84025. It’s at Ramsgate - as Dave @Yorkshire Dave pointed out the chimneys are those of Ramsgate Power Station - on a local train on 17th August 1958. The loco was allocated to Ramsgate when new in April 1957 and thereafter moved to Ashford in June 1959, Brighton in May, Newton Heath in September and Bolton, all 1961, and then was allocated back south to Eastleigh in November 1965 although it seems doubtful that a physical transfer ever took place. (SLS). In fact it was seen in store at Stockport between December 1965 and 6th March 1966. (WHTS). Thereafter there’s a suggestion it went back to the LMR but no allocation is given. In any event it was withdrawn in December 1965 (SLS) and went to Arnott Young at Parkgate where it was scrapped in March 1966. (BR Database).



It's very unlikely I'll post anything tomorrow so a Happy and Healthy Christmas to all and my grateful thanks for your support through the year..

Brian

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

That's wonderful stuff, Mick @mickoo. Photos are so good! I studiously avoided photographing those EMUs, or any other for that matter. As it happens, though, hoping for some steam one year at Stratford I photographed a couple of 312s in original maroon

I think you mean the 2 and 4 car 309s. Apart from the EMUs built for the Clacton and Walton On Naze services all others were delivered in stock green, electric blue or BR blue.

 

[mickoo]

I think you mean the 2 and 4 car 309s. Apart from the EMUs built for the Clacton and Walton On Naze services all others were delivered in stock green, electric blue or BR blue.

Was going to say the same, very few EMU's were delivered in maroon and the AM9 (309) were considered express stock due to their 100mph running.

There were other maroon EMU's, the Wirral/Merseyside units were maroon and I'm sure there were others in maroon; actually I've justy checked and didn't realize the Merseyside (Southport) stock was so old (1939), the later Wirral stock was 1949.

Photos (good) of maroon AM9's are hard to come by as like Brian, most people were photographing steam.

 

[mickoo]

That's wonderful stuff, Mick @mickoo. Photos are so good! I studiously avoided photographing those EMUs, or any other for that matter. As it happens, though, hoping for some steam one year at Stratford I photographed a couple of 312s in original maroon.

I wish I'd taken more now, funny how age (hindsight) does that to you.

 

[Martin Shaw]

For the record from the RCTS
84025 Ramsgate 4/57, Ashford 6/59, Brighton 6/61, Newton Heath 9/61, Bolton 11/61, Eastleigh 11/65, Bolton 12/65, Wdn 12/65.

Two things, the transfer from Ramsgate to Ashford, along with 84026-9, was the closure of the former to steam, the transfer to Eastleigh was for the IoW scheme however it was on paper only for a week. In actual fact the loco was dumped at Bolton and subsequently towed to Stockport prior to disposal.

Martin

 

[simond]

Was going to say the same, very few EMU's were delivered in maroon and the AM9 (309) were considered express stock due to their 100mph running.

There were other maroon EMU's, the Wirral/Merseyside units were maroon and I'm sure there were others in maroon; actually I've justy checked and didn't realize the Merseyside (Southport) stock was so old (1939), the later Wirral stock was 1949.

Photos (good) of maroon AM9's are hard to come by as like Brian, most people were photographing steam.

It’s a great shame that the last of the AM3 / 503 Wirral stock will not be restored. I grew up with them.

as far as I know, they were the only stock where an enterprising teenager could push one of the two sliding doors open whilst the train was running. Happily the dares never got more daring…

Merry Christmas!
Simon

 

[oldravendale]

Thank you for correcting my erroneous belief about the EMUs, Dave @Yorkshire Dave and Mick @mickoo. I'm in no position to judge whether mine of the AM9s are worthwhile or not - both suffer a degree of subject blur/shutter speed not high enough. So here they are.

Both at Stratford on 28th August 1965, the first being unit 616 and the second 622.





Brian

 

[oldravendale]

Thanks for those extra details, Martin @Martin Shaw . That's very helpful.

Thanks too, Simon, for the peripheral comments about the AM3s. That sliding door trick will give the H & S crew retrospective apoplexy.

Well, having been disbarred from the kitchen for a while I find I have time for a quick post, so here it is.

A Caprotti Standard Class 5 4-6-0, believed to be 73143 on the MR Main Line on either 5th or 6th September 1958 but the location is not provided. The loco was allocated to Nottingham in April 1958, then went to Derby in January and Rowsley in November 1959 ending up at Patricroft in March 1964 where it was withdrawn in June 1968. (SLS). It was scrapped at Cashmore’s, Great Bridge, in November 1968. (BR Database).



Standard Class 4 4-6-0 75044 at an unidentified location on the Midland main line but probably somewhere near Cricklewood on either 5th or 6th September 1958, The loco was allocated to Bedford in January 1955, then Leicester Midland in January 1960, Derby in October 1962, Springs Branch (Wigan) in December 1963 and Skipton in April 1965 where it was withdrawn in March 1966. (SLS). It was scrapped at T W Ward, Killamarsh, in June the same year. (BR Database).



W Class 2-6-4T 31924 at Cricklewood on either 5th or 6th September 1958 having doubtless arrived on a cross London freight. The allocation had been Hither Green since at least January 1948 (BR Database), then Feltham in May 1961, Exmouth Junction in November 1962, Norwood Junction October and Feltham in December 1963 where it was withdrawn in July 1964. (SLS). It was scrapped at Cohen’s, Kettering, in November the same year. (BR Database).



Mickey Mouse 46486 at Agecroft in September 1958. It was allocated here from February 1954 and then Lees (Oldham) in June 1962. In May 1964 a stint at Springs Branch (Wigan) followed, Lancaster Green Ayre from September 1965 and Carnforth from May 1966 where it was withdrawn in May 1967. It was in store at Carlisle Upperby during May to August 1967 before going to J McWilliams for disposal (WHTS) which was completed in September the same year.



WD 2-8-0 90552 at Agecroft in September 1958. This was a Newton Heath engine from April 1956, then Aintree from November 1958 where it was withdrawn in May 1964. (SLS). It was scrapped at Central Wagon Co, Wigan, in October 1964. (BR Database).



Brian

 

[Arun Sharma]

View attachment 229872

Brian

Good example of the two different types of LH handrails and vac pipes on WDs - The nearest one has the pipework associated with ex-LNER engines.

 

[mickoo]

Thank you for correcting my erroneous belief about the EMUs, Dave @Yorkshire Dave and Mick @mickoo. I'm in no position to judge whether mine of the AM9s are worthwhile or not - both suffer a degree of subject blur/shutter speed not high enough. So here they are.

Both at Stratford on 28th August 1965, the first being unit 616 and the second 622.

View attachment 229866

View attachment 229867

Brian

Brilliant

 

[oldravendale]

Thanks for yours, Arun. I'd not have known about the pipework if you'd not pointed it out.

Really pleased you like the AM9 photos, Mick.

Stanier 2-6-4T 42647 at Agecroft in September 1958 apparently without a BR totem on the tank. Agecroft was home shed from at least January 1948 (BR Database) and it moved to Wigan Central (L & Y) in November 1963 and Springs Branch (Wigan) in May 1964 before ending up at Birkenhead Mollington Street in August 1966 where it was withdrawn in May 1967. (SLS). It was scrapped at Cashmore’s, Newport, in November the same year. (BR Database).



Aspinall 3F Class 11 52278 at Agecroft in September 1958. It was allocated to Newton Heath in December 1956 and withdrawn from there in July 1959. It then went to Horwich Works (WHTS) where it was scrapped a month or so later. (BR Database).

Edit: Now known to be Newton Heath, not Agecroft.



Another Aspinall 3F Class 11, 52161, at Agecroft in September 1958. This was allocated to Newton Heath in April 1958 but went immediately on loan to Stockport where it was withdrawn in October 1960. (SLS). It was scrapped at Horwich Works (WHTS) later the same month.

Edit: Now known to be Newton Heath not Agecroft.



Barton Wright Class 23 0-6-0ST 51458 at Agecroft in September 1958 which was (as I read the history) a Class 25 0-6-0 until converted to a saddle tank. Shed Bash on 14th June 1959 records it as present at Agecroft although withdrawn at the time and carrying a Newton Heath shed plate. Agecroft 1936 - 1966 According to the SLS the loco was allocated to Newton Heath from December 1949 and was withdrawn – whether from there or Agecroft is uncertain – in May1959. It went to Central Wagon Works, Ince, Wigan for disposal (RO) although I can find no reference of a date when the deed was complete.

Edit. Now known to be Newton Heath, not Agecroft.



Brian

 

[Arun Sharma]

From WHTS: 51458 was stored withdrawn at Newton Heath and Agecroft between 5/59 and approx 8/61. Reported [WHTS] cut up at CWC Ince 9/61.

 

[oldravendale]

Thanks for yours, Arun. From all the evidence it appears that Agecroft was a storage concentration depot pre-scrapping. See below for some more.

I read this as Fowler 7F 0-8-0 49667 which from the allocation seems likely. Here it’s at Agecroft in September 1958. It’s another recorded on 14th June 1959 at Agecroft as withdrawn on Agecroft 1936 - 1966 although being allocated to Newton Heath. It was on the Newton Heath allocation from November 1953 (BR Database) and was withdrawn in May 1959. (SLS). It was scrapped at Central Wagon, Ince, Wigan (RO) in September 1961. (BR Database).

Edit: Now known to be Newton Heath, not Agecroft.



This is Fowler 7F 0-8-0 49511 at Agecroft in September 1958 although allocated to Newton Heath from December 1955. It’s recorded as having been seen withdrawn at Agecroft on 14th June 1959 – see Agecroft 1936 - 1966. Newton Heath was it’s final shed, having been withdrawn in May 1959 after a period in storage from August 1958. (SLS). It was scrapped at Central Wagon, Ince, Wigan (RO) in September 1961. (BR Database).

Edit: Now known to be Newton Heath, not Agecroft.



Caprotti Black 5 44686 at Agecroft in September 1958. It was new to Longsight in April 1951 (BR Database) then Monument Lane April 1960, Llandudno Junction May 1960 and Southport in October 1963 where it was withdrawn in October 1965. (SLS). It then went to Wards, Beighton, Sheffield (RO) where it was seen on 30th January and 8th February 1966 (WHTS) and scrapped in September 1967. (BR Database).

Edit: Now known to be Longsight, not Agecroft.



Black 5 45003 at an unidentified location probably in September 1958. It was allocated to Crewe South in November 1957 and stayed there until July 1959 when it moved to Stoke and back to Crewe South in September the same year although it ended up at Stoke in July 1961 where it was withdrawn in May 1967. (SLS). It was scrapped at Cohen’s, Kettering, in February 1968. (BR Database).



Brian

 

[Arun Sharma]

Thanks for yours, Arun. From all the evidence it appears that Agecroft was a storage concentration depot pre-scrapping. See below for some more.

I read this as Fowler 7F 0-8-0 49667 which from the allocation seems likely. Here it’s at Agecroft in September 1958. It’s another recorded on 14th June 1959 at Agecroft as withdrawn on Agecroft 1936 - 1966 although being allocated to Newton Heath. It was on the Newton Heath allocation from November 1953 (BR Database) and was withdrawn in May 1959. (SLS). It was scrapped at Central Wagon, Ince, Wigan (RO) in September 1961. (BR Database).

View attachment 230015

This is Fowler 7F 0-8-0 49511 at Agecroft in September 1958 although allocated to Newton Heath from December 1955. It’s recorded as having been seen withdrawn at Agecroft on 14th June 1959 – see Agecroft 1936 - 1966. Newton Heath was it’s final shed, having been withdrawn in May 1959 after a period in storage from August 1958. (SLS). It was scrapped at Central Wagon, Ince, Wigan (RO) in September 1961. (BR Database).

View attachment 230016

Caprotti Black 5 44686 at Agecroft in September 1958. It was new to Longsight in April 1951 (BR Database) then Monument Lane April 1960, Llandudno Junction May 1960 and Southport in October 1963 where it was withdrawn in October 1965. (SLS). It then went to Wards, Beighton, Sheffield (RO) where it was seen on 30th January and 8th February 1966 (WHTS) and scrapped in September 1967. (BR Database).

View attachment 230017

Black 5 45003 at an unidentified location probably in September 1958. It was allocated to Crewe South in November 1957 and stayed there until July 1959 when it moved to Stoke and back to Crewe South in September the same year although it ended up at Stoke in July 1961 where it was withdrawn in May 1967. (SLS). It was scrapped at Cohen’s, Kettering, in February 1968. (BR Database).

View attachment 230018

Brian

Is 45003 at Shrewsbury?

 

[40057]

Is 45003 at Shrewsbury?

I don’t think so. Don’t recognise the location though.

 

[Martin Shaw]

Arun
It is not Shrewsbury, the buildings are wrong for there. The GW was responsible for the signals and the signal gantry above the train is pure LNW as is the partially hidden signal box in the background. 45003 was a western division engine since 1935 so somwhere on that division, the lack of signs of resignalling or electrification may narrow things a bit.

I have some slight variation in the locomotives later allocation dates,
Rugby 5/6/43, Willesden 31/10/53, Crewe N 14/4/56, Crewe S 20/10/56, Crewe N 5/1/57, Crewe S 23/11/57, Stoke 20/6/59, Crewe N 12/9/59,
Stoke 10/6/61, Wdn w.e. 27/5/67.

Martin