Martin Shaw
Western Thunderer
To you as well Brian. I think all of the contributors to this thread would thank you for the immense amount of effort you put in which brings us all so much enjoyment.
Best wishes
Martin
Best wishes
Martin
Prototype Tim Mills' Photos
- Thread starter oldravendale
- Start date
Arun Sharma
Western Thunderer
Brian - at #4460 you said, "In the second photo M7 30245 is travelling towards the camera and is probably on empty stock. This was a Nine Elms engine from February 1954 and was withdrawn in November 1962. In October 1964 it was seen at Stratford Works in the Old Erecting Shop alongside LYR1008, 30245/587, 850, 925, 33001, 71000, 63460 and 63601. There’s a note that the GWR locos were still at Swindon. (All SLS). It escaped the cutter’s torch and was preserved for the National Collection".
Like you I was lurking around Stratford - It wasn't 71000 - It was 70000 Britannia.
If I had to guess, 71000 might still have been at Crewe getting its valve gear dismantled for transiti to the Science Museum around that time.
Like you I was lurking around Stratford - It wasn't 71000 - It was 70000 Britannia.
If I had to guess, 71000 might still have been at Crewe getting its valve gear dismantled for transiti to the Science Museum around that time.
John Palmer
Active Member
Fully agree with Martin and looking forward to further treats in the New Year.
Regarding img3601, I think I'm right in saying that 34102 Lapford along with 34023 Blackmore Vale were the only two unrebuilt light Pacifics to see out Southern Region steam traction in 1967. I encountered 34102 at Bournemouth shed and 34023 double heading an Up special with 34108 Wincanton, also at Bournemouth, in the last weeks of steam haulage.
To the right of 30839 can be seen one of Surrey Warner's 'Ironclad' gangwayed 2nds, readily identifiable by its outside framed 'Dreadnought' bogie, as fitted to those Ironclads built prior to 1923. There are plenty of published shots of Ironclads in the Clapham carriage sidings, though Templecombe seems to have been another of their favoured haunts, with two of the eight-car special traffic sets having been captured on film by Dick Riley whilst berthed there in July 1959.
oldravendale
Western Thunderer
Thank you for your kind comments, Martin @Martin Shaw and John @John Palmer . I suspect I have enough images here to keep the satisfaction rating quite high for as long as they remain of interest. I guess the only way of judging this is by the number of "Likes" which seems to be gently increasing.
Thanks for yours, Arun. The SLS are clearly in error as they state that 71000 was at Stratford which, had I thought about it, would obviously have been a nonsense. I'll correct by way of an edit.
John @John Palmer - additional thanks for yours about the original West Countries still running at the end of SR steam. I remember it well - I saw Blackmore Vale at Nine Elms. Thanks too for the additional info about the Ironclads.
On 19th September 1958 B17 61658 The Essex Regiment is at Witham White House with an up troop special. At the time, and from May 1955, it was allocated to Colchester, moving to Stratford in December 1958 and back to Colchester in February 1959 before going again to Stratford in November the same year and being withdrawn in December. (SLS). The SLS also report the loco in store at Colchester on 21st March 1959 along with 61662. It went to Doncaster Works for disposal (WHTS) where it was observed intact on 14th February 1960 (RO) although BR Database report a scrapping date during December 1959, the implication being that this was probably Stratford.
Britannia 70003 John Bunyan at Witham White House with an up Norwich stopping train on 19th September 1958. We saw this as a very underexposed shot entering Liverpool Street in post #2645 and it’s also been in post #2693.
70003 was a Stratford engine from March 1951 and moved to Norwich Thorpe in February 1959, then March in August 1961 before migrating to Carlisle Kingmoor in November or December 1963 where it was withdrawn in March 1967. (SLS). It was scrapped at Campbells, Airdrie, in November 1967. (BR Database).
B17 61668 Bradford City at Witham White House on an up Clacton fast train on 19th September 1958. It was a Stratford engine from November 1955 and moved to Colchester in December 1958 and back to Stratford in December 1959 where it lasted until August 1960. (SLS). It was cut up in the same month (BR Database) at Stratford Works (WHTS).
Clan 72009 Clan Stewart at Witham White House in a down Clacton stopping train on 19th September 1958. It was new to Carlisle Kingmoor in April 1952 and went to Stratford on loan officially 4-weeks ending 4th October 1958. Further the SLS reported that 72009 was on loan and commenced trials on 15th September on Clacton trains. If successful it was intended that five Kingmoor Clans would be exchanged for five Stratford Britannias. (I remember learning about this and making the trip to Liverpool Street in the hope of seeing the loco, a quest in which I failed). The loco returned to Carlisle Kingmoor in the 4-weeks ending 1st November 1958 where it was withdrawn in August 1965. (SLS). It went to Motherwell Machinery and Scrap, Wishaw, where it was broken up by 19th November 1965. (BR Database).
Brian
Thanks for yours, Arun. The SLS are clearly in error as they state that 71000 was at Stratford which, had I thought about it, would obviously have been a nonsense. I'll correct by way of an edit.
John @John Palmer - additional thanks for yours about the original West Countries still running at the end of SR steam. I remember it well - I saw Blackmore Vale at Nine Elms. Thanks too for the additional info about the Ironclads.
On 19th September 1958 B17 61658 The Essex Regiment is at Witham White House with an up troop special. At the time, and from May 1955, it was allocated to Colchester, moving to Stratford in December 1958 and back to Colchester in February 1959 before going again to Stratford in November the same year and being withdrawn in December. (SLS). The SLS also report the loco in store at Colchester on 21st March 1959 along with 61662. It went to Doncaster Works for disposal (WHTS) where it was observed intact on 14th February 1960 (RO) although BR Database report a scrapping date during December 1959, the implication being that this was probably Stratford.
Britannia 70003 John Bunyan at Witham White House with an up Norwich stopping train on 19th September 1958. We saw this as a very underexposed shot entering Liverpool Street in post #2645 and it’s also been in post #2693.
70003 was a Stratford engine from March 1951 and moved to Norwich Thorpe in February 1959, then March in August 1961 before migrating to Carlisle Kingmoor in November or December 1963 where it was withdrawn in March 1967. (SLS). It was scrapped at Campbells, Airdrie, in November 1967. (BR Database).
B17 61668 Bradford City at Witham White House on an up Clacton fast train on 19th September 1958. It was a Stratford engine from November 1955 and moved to Colchester in December 1958 and back to Stratford in December 1959 where it lasted until August 1960. (SLS). It was cut up in the same month (BR Database) at Stratford Works (WHTS).
Clan 72009 Clan Stewart at Witham White House in a down Clacton stopping train on 19th September 1958. It was new to Carlisle Kingmoor in April 1952 and went to Stratford on loan officially 4-weeks ending 4th October 1958. Further the SLS reported that 72009 was on loan and commenced trials on 15th September on Clacton trains. If successful it was intended that five Kingmoor Clans would be exchanged for five Stratford Britannias. (I remember learning about this and making the trip to Liverpool Street in the hope of seeing the loco, a quest in which I failed). The loco returned to Carlisle Kingmoor in the 4-weeks ending 1st November 1958 where it was withdrawn in August 1965. (SLS). It went to Motherwell Machinery and Scrap, Wishaw, where it was broken up by 19th November 1965. (BR Database).
Brian
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Martin Shaw
Western Thunderer
61658 The Essex Regiment was originally named Newcastle United, a name which it only carried during trials acquiring its military title in June 1936. It appears according to Irwell to have been in store at Colchester from 14/6/59 until transfer (possibly on paper only) to Stratford on 1/11/59. After withdrawal it was cut up at Doncaster.
The Clan on the GE section is rare enough, to have it photographed is as a good a new year present as could be wished for, although the loan was in 1958 not 52 as written!
Martin
The Clan on the GE section is rare enough, to have it photographed is as a good a new year present as could be wished for, although the loan was in 1958 not 52 as written!
Martin
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I love this thread both for the initial posts and the erudite and courteous additions and corrections. Most of the original events that underpin the content did, I’m afraid, pass me by as I struggled with my Ariel NH350 and uncles cast off dispatch rider coat. Truly interesting and educational. Reminds me again of the need to look around as well as just the bit of life in front of you..
Thank you and with hopes for more in 2025.
Thank you and with hopes for more in 2025.
oldravendale
Western Thunderer
I appreciate your advice about 61658, Martin @Martin Shaw and also for picking up that date error. All down to me again, but now corrected by way of an edit. As for the Clan on the GER. More to come in a post or two.
And Paul @paulcarms . You've encapsulated my feelings and appreciation for the comments in a few short sentences. Thank you Paul and I hope you'll continue enjoying the thread.
Rebuilt West Country 34021 Dartmoor at Wandsworth Road Station with a Kent Coast Express on 13th September 1958. It was rebuilt by December 1957 (BR Database) and was allocated to Ramsgate in January 1958, Bournemouth in February 1961, Eastleigh September 1962 and finally Nine Elms in January 1965 where it was withdrawn on the last day of Southern steam in July 1967. (SLS). It was scrapped at Cashmore’s, Newport, in March 1968. (BR Database).
N1 31877 on empty stock at Wandsworth Road Station on 3rd September 1958. It was allocated to Hither Green in May 1949, Tonbridge in June 1959 and Stewarts Lane in June 1962 where it was withdrawn in the following November. (SLS). It went to Eastleigh Works where it was scrapped week ending 24th August 1963. (RO)
Original Battle of Britain 34085 501 Squadron at Wandsworth Road Station with the Golden Arrow - Victoria to Dover and then Paris on 13th September 1958. It was at Stewarts Lane from April 1958, (SLS) was rebuilt in June 1960 (BR Database) and went to Bournemouth in January 1961 where it was withdrawn in September 1965. (SLS). It went to Buttigieg’s, Newport (RO) where it was seen on 27th March and 11th April 1966 (WHTS) and BR Database reports a scrapping date of April the same year.
King Arthur 30766 Sir Geraint on empty stock at Wandsworth Road Station on 13th September 1958. Seen previously in post #4349 this loco was allocated to Stewarts Lane in May 1949 and went in to store there in November 1955. It was reinstated in June 1956 and was withdrawn in December 1958. (SLS). It was recorded by the Railway Observer as seen in Eastleigh Works on 16th January 1959 and was scrapped later the same month. (BR Database).
Brian
And Paul @paulcarms . You've encapsulated my feelings and appreciation for the comments in a few short sentences. Thank you Paul and I hope you'll continue enjoying the thread.
Rebuilt West Country 34021 Dartmoor at Wandsworth Road Station with a Kent Coast Express on 13th September 1958. It was rebuilt by December 1957 (BR Database) and was allocated to Ramsgate in January 1958, Bournemouth in February 1961, Eastleigh September 1962 and finally Nine Elms in January 1965 where it was withdrawn on the last day of Southern steam in July 1967. (SLS). It was scrapped at Cashmore’s, Newport, in March 1968. (BR Database).
N1 31877 on empty stock at Wandsworth Road Station on 3rd September 1958. It was allocated to Hither Green in May 1949, Tonbridge in June 1959 and Stewarts Lane in June 1962 where it was withdrawn in the following November. (SLS). It went to Eastleigh Works where it was scrapped week ending 24th August 1963. (RO)
Original Battle of Britain 34085 501 Squadron at Wandsworth Road Station with the Golden Arrow - Victoria to Dover and then Paris on 13th September 1958. It was at Stewarts Lane from April 1958, (SLS) was rebuilt in June 1960 (BR Database) and went to Bournemouth in January 1961 where it was withdrawn in September 1965. (SLS). It went to Buttigieg’s, Newport (RO) where it was seen on 27th March and 11th April 1966 (WHTS) and BR Database reports a scrapping date of April the same year.
King Arthur 30766 Sir Geraint on empty stock at Wandsworth Road Station on 13th September 1958. Seen previously in post #4349 this loco was allocated to Stewarts Lane in May 1949 and went in to store there in November 1955. It was reinstated in June 1956 and was withdrawn in December 1958. (SLS). It was recorded by the Railway Observer as seen in Eastleigh Works on 16th January 1959 and was scrapped later the same month. (BR Database).
Brian
oldravendale
Western Thunderer
On 13th September 1958 C Class 31725 passes Wandsworth Road Station on empty stock. The SLS advise that the loco was allocated to Hither Green in June 1958 and again in May 1959 although there’s no allocation named between those two dates. It went to Brighton in November 1959 where it was withdrawn in August 1960. (SLS). Disposal was at Ashford Works and was completed in the week ending 3rd September 1960. (RO)
Standard Class 5 4-6-0 73085 Melisande on a Victoria to Ramsgate working at Wandsworth Road Station on 13th September 1958. We saw this loco previously in post #2851. It was allocated to Stewarts Lane when new in August 1955, then there’s what I believe to be an erroneous allocation to Oxford in February 1956 before allocation to Nine Elms in June 1959. It went to Feltham in October 1965 and Eastleigh a month later, then Nine Elms again in June 1966 where it was withdrawn at the end of Southern steam in July 1967.(SLS). It was scrapped at Cashmore's, Newport, in April 1968. (BR Database)
As promised, some more of a Clan on the Great Eastern. Seen previously on a train in post #4464 is Clan 72009 Clan Stewart here at Liverpool Street standing in the bay between platforms 12 and 13 on 18th September 1958 and clearly carrying the 12A Carlisle Kingmoor shed plate. To repeat my previous comments the loco was new to Carlisle Kingmoor in April 1952 and went to Stratford on loan officially in the 4-weeks ending 4th October 1958. Further the SLS reported that 72009 was on loan and commenced trials on 15th September on Clacton trains. If successful it was intended that five Kingmoor Clans would be exchanged for five Stratford Britannias. The loco returned to Carlisle Kingmoor in the 4-weeks ending 1st November 1958 where it was withdrawn in August 1965. (SLS). It went to Motherwell Machinery and Scrap, Wishaw, where it was broken up by 19th November 1965. (BR Database).
A B1 believed to be 61361 at Witham Station on an up stopping train on 19th September 1958. The loco was allocated to Colchester in January 1957, moving to Parkeston Quay in December 1959 and finally Colwick in December 1960 where it was withdrawn in December 1965. (SLS). It then went to Garnham, Harris and Elton at Chesterfield for disposal which was completed in March 1966. (BR Database).
Brian
Standard Class 5 4-6-0 73085 Melisande on a Victoria to Ramsgate working at Wandsworth Road Station on 13th September 1958. We saw this loco previously in post #2851. It was allocated to Stewarts Lane when new in August 1955, then there’s what I believe to be an erroneous allocation to Oxford in February 1956 before allocation to Nine Elms in June 1959. It went to Feltham in October 1965 and Eastleigh a month later, then Nine Elms again in June 1966 where it was withdrawn at the end of Southern steam in July 1967.(SLS). It was scrapped at Cashmore's, Newport, in April 1968. (BR Database)
As promised, some more of a Clan on the Great Eastern. Seen previously on a train in post #4464 is Clan 72009 Clan Stewart here at Liverpool Street standing in the bay between platforms 12 and 13 on 18th September 1958 and clearly carrying the 12A Carlisle Kingmoor shed plate. To repeat my previous comments the loco was new to Carlisle Kingmoor in April 1952 and went to Stratford on loan officially in the 4-weeks ending 4th October 1958. Further the SLS reported that 72009 was on loan and commenced trials on 15th September on Clacton trains. If successful it was intended that five Kingmoor Clans would be exchanged for five Stratford Britannias. The loco returned to Carlisle Kingmoor in the 4-weeks ending 1st November 1958 where it was withdrawn in August 1965. (SLS). It went to Motherwell Machinery and Scrap, Wishaw, where it was broken up by 19th November 1965. (BR Database).
A B1 believed to be 61361 at Witham Station on an up stopping train on 19th September 1958. The loco was allocated to Colchester in January 1957, moving to Parkeston Quay in December 1959 and finally Colwick in December 1960 where it was withdrawn in December 1965. (SLS). It then went to Garnham, Harris and Elton at Chesterfield for disposal which was completed in March 1966. (BR Database).
Brian
James Fibbens
Member
Part of me always thought it was a little suprising that the Clans weren't found to be "good enough" to work on the Great Eastern. One wonders whether they really were not quite up to it, or whether the Great Eastern men, having got used to what the Brits could do, simply wouldn't settle for anything less?
Tim Humphreys ex Mudhen
Western Thunderer
From what I've read over the years I think it was the latter. Why would you want to swap a Brit for a Clan after 7 years of enjoying their performance?
Tim
Tim