Prototype Tim Mills' Photos

[Dave Holt]

What's the lighter grey object behind the front coupling?

Jim.

Looks like steam from the inside cylinder drain cocks to me.
Dave.

 

[oldravendale]

That's a good question, Jim. It looks grey and fluffy to me, so it's probably the shed cat...... It's one of the reasons I like to print a bit darker and lower contrast as the smoke and steam retains some texture even when exposure is not perfect.

This time it's another "Kentish Town. 8th February 1958." It features two classes I immediately associate with Kentish Town Shed, a 2P 4-4-0 and a Fowler 3P 2-6-2T. At the time these were both allocated to Kentish Town. 40524 went to Nottingham in October 1958 and was withdrawn from there during July 1959 being scrapped in July 1960. 40036 lasted a bit longer, going to Cricklewood in April 1960 from where it was withdrawn in the June and scrapped in August.



Brian

 

[LarryG]

A great shot showing the kind of 'fare' we enjoyed in the 1950's. Fowler 2-6-2T's seemed big to me when I was a lad, but when I boarded one at Bolton shed in my late teens, the hot claustrophobic cab made me realise why they were known to local railwaymen as 'breadvans.

 

[oldravendale]

Thanks for that, Larry. Those Fowler 2-6-2Ts always seemed "long" to me, if you know what I mean. I was more used to the Stanier and standard 2-6-2Ts which appeared more compact.

And with apologies I forgot to thank you for your comments about the bogie wheels on that Jubilee. If you'd said nothing I'd never have known, nor about the way the wheels were swapped around.

I spoke to Tim today and he was a bit down. However, after five minutes of talking about his photos and their reception on here together with the photos of the sales stand for the GCR which he took all over the south and south east he perked up considerably. I've even found some of his son linesiding in the 70s which I'm sending him this evening. In fact I read back some of the comments and he was quite overwhelmed. He's getting great support from his wife, son and step daughter which is good news. I just wish that I (well, we, because Mrs D is very fond of Tim as well) could go to Leics to see him and have a yarn. This covid thing has some really sad side effects.

Best to all and take care.

Brian

 

[oldravendale]

There's not much history to build around this one. It's another "Kentish Town. 15th February 1958." 40413 was a Kentish Town loco at the time, moving there from Saltley on either 13th July 1957 or 10th August 1957, not that a month makes a lot of difference! It was stored at Kentish Town at the end of 1958 and withdrawn on 10th January 1959 so Tim caught this in its last few months of active service. It wasn't until the '60s that people started to take an interest in precise dates of scrapping so the best we can do with this one is "during year end 1960".



Brian

 

[AJC]

More interesting wagons (and another Medfit). To the left of the loco is an LNER Loco Coal wagon - ok, so the branding is very obvious, but note that it hasn't been reinstated after the top two planks were renewed. Here's a cut down version as an internal user at Stanton ironworks in the late '70s courtesy of @hrmspaul: LNER Wood & steel Minerals, wooden hoppers, | 2233

To the right is a steel 21 tonner with a P prefix. I can't quite make the number out, not that it matters. I think it's probably one to the GWR pattern vehicles leased to private owners, like this one, again in internal use, this time with the NCB, captured at Bargoed in 1981: GWR mineral wagon | NCB55 ex GWR-PO 2 door mineral @ NCB Bargoed 81-09-25 � Paul Bartlett [2w]. Behind the loco and just visible must be another 21 tonner (based on the spacing) which must be more or less new going on the clean light grey just visible.

None of these are so surprising in the context of a large shed, but hopefully of interest?

Adam

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

This time it's another "Kentish Town. 8th February 1958." It features two classes I immediately associate with Kentish Town Shed, a 2P 4-4-0 and a Fowler 3P 2-6-2T. At the time these were both allocated to Kentish Town.

From other photographic evidence I've seen the Fowler 2-6-2 tanks were common on the Moorgate/St Pancras commuter services to St Albans and Bedford.

 

[LarryG]

From other photographic evidence I've seen the Fowler 2-6-2 tanks were common on the Moorgate/St Pancras commuter services to St Albans and Bedford.

They were and I was hoping to see them in 1960 while spending some weeks at my mothers in St.Albans. But I was too late and the Rolls Royce engined Derby Units had taken over.

 

[Martin Shaw]

There is the rather interesting pipe coming up through the running plate and curving round into the bottom of the smokebox, a feature also similarly present on the SECR/SR L1 class. Presumably the influence of Clayton, I think I prefer the Ashford look to the Derby one.
Martin

 

[LarryG]

There is the rather interesting pipe coming up through the running plate and curving round into the bottom of the smokebox, a feature also similarly present on the SECR/SR L1 class.
Martin

Exhaust injector pipe as found on some compounds. An ugly fitting that started to appear in the mid 1930's I think.

 

[oldravendale]

I remember the 2-6-2 tanks at Moorgate as well, when I used to travel to the city to meet up with my father after work, when we'd go "exploring". I have some fantastic memories of the summer evenings we'd spend in the City and East End.

Here's one of Tim's taken under less than perfect conditions and very under exposed, but of interest anyway (IMHO). It's "Kentish Town Inmates. 15th February 1958." On the extreme left, lurking in the shadows, is Jubilee 45607, Fiji, with another, 45614, Leeward Islands, next door. Then three 2Ps, 40411, 40543 and 40464. I'm finding it difficult to suggest a class for the one on the extreme right with the smokebox door open but suspect it might be a 2-6-4T. Remarkably only one of these locos, 45614, lives at Kentish Town so I assume the visitors are tucked away to get them out of the way in a cramped yard. 15th February 1958 was a Saturday so the motive power department wouldn't have been stressed with the demands of commuter traffic and February is hardly the time for holidays - in the UK at least.

The history of each is as follows: 45607 was a Millhouses loco at the time, then went to Canklow and Agecroft in quick succession in 1962 from where it was withdrawn in December the same year and scrapped by 18th May 1963. 45614 want from Kentish Town to Newton Heath in July 1959 and then back to Kentish Town in the September. Then Trafford Park, Kentish Town (again), Derby, Burton and finally Derby again being withdrawn in January 1963 and scrapped during April 1964. 40411 was a Nottingham loco, then going to Sheffield (Grimesthorpe), Bedford and Nottingham. Withdrawal occurred in February 1961 and it was scrapped the following August. 40543 and 40464 had both come from Leicester from where 543 was withdrawn in January 1961 and scrapped in May 1962 but 464 didn't last long after this photo as it was withdrawn in March 1958 and was scrapped the same month.



Brian

 

[Dave Holt]

Brian.
The loco on the right looks to me like a Black 5. The step in the front footplate is far too deep for a 2-6-4 tank.
Dave.

 

[oldravendale]

Brian.
The loco on the right looks to me like a Black 5. The step in the front footplate is far too deep for a 2-6-4 tank.
Dave.

I'll buy that, Dave! In fact that was my first thought but there's something indefinable which made me discount it.

Brian

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

Here's one of Tim's taken under less than perfect conditions and very under exposed, but of interest anyway (IMHO). It's "Kentish Town Inmates. 15th February 1958."

The under exposure could have been quite deliberate. The correct exposure would have resulted in increased light flare from the roof and some of the detail would have been lost.

It also shows how gloomy some locomotive sheds were, especially in February!

 

[76043]

I thought the 2-6-4 tanks had oval buffers?
Tony

 

[oldravendale]

The under exposure could have been quite deliberate. The correct exposure would have resulted in increased light flare from the roof and some of the detail would have been lost.

It also shows how gloomy some locomotive sheds were, especially in February!

I suspect any under exposure was purely accidental, Dave. I suspect that, at the time of this photo, Tim was using a box camera.

I thought the 2-6-4 tanks had oval buffers?
Tony

Dunno about that, Tony. If I'd known that I'd not have suggested a 2-6-4T.

Brian

 

[LarryG]

The drop plate from higher running plate to the lower running plate has chunks out of it so its narrower at the bottom. This was not done on 2-6-4T's, or Jubilee's (for instance) .I lightened the picture soon after it was posted, but decided against posting it. It is definitely a Black five on the right.

 

[mickoo]

Black five on the right, as opposed to Jubilee; two dead giveaways, squatter chimney, no piston tail rod cover sticking out of the front cover.

 

[oldravendale]

The drop plate from higher running plate to the lower running plate has chunks out of it so its narrower at the bottom. This was not done on 2-6-4T's, or Jubilee's (for instance) .I lightened the picture soon after it was posted, but decided against posting it. It is definitely a Black five on the right.

Black five on the right, as opposed to Jubilee; two dead giveaways, squatter chimney, no piston tail rod cover sticking out of the front cover.

Thanks chaps. Entirely happy with that. Added to the data.....

Brian

 

[oldravendale]

A nice portrait of a B1 at Neasden. This is "Neasden. 12th April 1958." You'll possibly notice the cooling towers behind the shed but I'm uncertain about the power station these represent. I don't think it was Neasden (Met Railway) - personally I don't remember cooling towers at that site. Doubtless Yorkshire Dave will put me right. It must have been taken soon after the transfer of the ex GCR lines to the Midland Region although I'm not certain of the exact date that occurred apart from that it was during 1958. I suspect the beginning of the year. It didn't take long for Black 5s and Fairburn 2-6-4Ts to replace the B1s and L1s. At the time of this photo there were still V2s to be seen on the South Yorkshireman, although the A3s had been transferred away. This is one of the named B1s, 61028 Umseke, a Neasden engine from 1954. On 1st February 1958 it's shown as "On Loan" to Neasden which I suspect was a book movement purely to keep the Marylebone services running while Black 5s were found to replace the B1s. It was, however, allocated to Leicester in February 1959 and then Woodford Halse in the July before withdrawal in October 1962. It met its eventual demise at Darlington where it was scrapped in March 1963.

As it happens we know the identity of the N5 as well.



So, fairly obviously, this is also "Neasden. 12th April 1958." It's N5 69341 which had probably lived at Neasden at least since 1948. This is also shown as "On loan" on 1st February 1958 although was then officially reallocated to Neasden in February 1958 when it became LMR shed 14D. It was withdrawn in December 1959 and I can find no details regarding where or when it was scrapped.



Brian