Martin Shaw
Western Thunderer
Are the cooling towers Stonebridge Park? A total guess I might add.
Martin
Martin
Prototype Tim Mills' Photos
- Thread starter oldravendale
- Start date
LarryG
Western Thunderer
I couldn't resist this for the N5 and will un-post if required. Lovely looking engines and well captured by Tim. I once saw an N5 unusually working a Guide Bridge-Oldham train from the upper deck of a pre-war Leyland TD5 climbing from under Gas Street Bridge. The loco was running round its train so there must have been a shortage of push-pull C13's that day...
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Yorkshire Dave
Western Thunderer
As Martin has guessed these are the cooling towers for Stonebridge Park power station. On the 1944-69 OS map link Neasden (ER) shed is in the top centre of the map and Stonebridge Park power station is at the bottom centre. The Neasden (Met) power station cooling towers were rectangular. by scrolling out you can see the relative positions to each other.
Explore georeferenced maps - Map images - National Library of Scotland
oldravendale
Western Thunderer
Larry - well, I thought that we'd not agree on how a photo should look on screen (bearing in mind that you are entirely welcome to your own opinion, even if you're wrong) but that is a definite improvement. Thanks for taking the trouble to "see what could be done". I'll now be working on the original to try to emulate your result. How much Tippex did you use?
Brian
Dog Star
Western Thunderer
A question about a detail of the N5, a detail which is brough out in Larry's image... what is the fitting under the front right corner of the footplate? An enlargement of the image suggests that there is a drain cock or similar about 12" back from the buffer plank.
regards, Graham
regards, Graham
Martin Shaw
Western Thunderer
The RCTS notes that some of the Neasden allocation had trip cock apparatus fitted for working over Met lines, I think it might be part of it. An interesting fact has come to light, 69250 the first of the class in 1891, was the first locomotive on a Britsh railway to have a Belpaire firebox. It was withdrawn in 1956 so a working life of 65 years had amply repaid all it's capital costs many times over. The things you find out.
Regards
Martin
Regards
Martin
Yorkshire Dave
Western Thunderer
Having seen the photos of Neasden it would be interesting if there were others taken by Tim in this area as they are commensurate (+ or - 2 years) with some of the D M Herbert collection photos you have posted around the Home Counties. They also provide an insight into thier primary interests - steam (Tim) and electric (D M Herbert).
Yorkshire Dave
Western Thunderer
On closer inspection and given it's position I would definitely say it is a tripcock (there would also be one on the other side - diagonally opposite so to speak - either in front of or behind the radial wheel).
LT transferred responsibility of the goods services on the Met lines to the LNER and it's successor, BR, in 1937. On the electrified lines in 1957/9 Pinner, Northwood, Rickmansworth and Watford among others still had operational goods yards.
oldravendale
Western Thunderer
Thank you all again for you comments.
Re trip cock - I'd not noticed that so useful info, and for the stuff about the Belpaire firebox, Martin. There are a very few more at Neasden, Dave, but mainly Cricklewood and Willesden. Thanks too for the info about the LNER/Met arrangements - not an aspect everyone is aware of for sure. And Tony - I'll be passing your comment on to Tim. He'll be gratified that one of his photos will have such a direct effect on someone's modelling.
We're back at "Kentish Town MPD. 1957." There's nothing particularly stunning about this shot except that it's a nice portrait of a Black 5. It helps to demonstrate the characteristics of a lot of London sheds, cheek by jowl with neighbouring buildings, although perhaps not quite as crammed as Camden. A couple of wagons again as peripheral interest.
44861 had a relatively normal life in the run down of steam. At the time of the photo it was a Nottingham loco, moving to Derby in November 1964 and Newton Heath in July 1965 from where it was withdrawn in November 1967. It was scrapped - we know not where - during April 1968.
Brian
Re trip cock - I'd not noticed that so useful info, and for the stuff about the Belpaire firebox, Martin. There are a very few more at Neasden, Dave, but mainly Cricklewood and Willesden. Thanks too for the info about the LNER/Met arrangements - not an aspect everyone is aware of for sure. And Tony - I'll be passing your comment on to Tim. He'll be gratified that one of his photos will have such a direct effect on someone's modelling.
We're back at "Kentish Town MPD. 1957." There's nothing particularly stunning about this shot except that it's a nice portrait of a Black 5. It helps to demonstrate the characteristics of a lot of London sheds, cheek by jowl with neighbouring buildings, although perhaps not quite as crammed as Camden. A couple of wagons again as peripheral interest.
44861 had a relatively normal life in the run down of steam. At the time of the photo it was a Nottingham loco, moving to Derby in November 1964 and Newton Heath in July 1965 from where it was withdrawn in November 1967. It was scrapped - we know not where - during April 1968.
Brian
daifly
Western Thunderer
This place:
https://www.railuk.info/steam/getscrap.php?id=53
says Drapers, Neptune Street Goods Yard, Hull
Dave
oldravendale
Western Thunderer
Well found, Dave!
oldravendale
Western Thunderer
For today something completely different. Entitled by Tim simply "Hornsey 34B. 1957" it's the celebrated J52 0-6-0ST 68846, I believe the first standard gauge loco to be privately preserved. Tim lived in Hornsey at the time so a visit to the shed would be entirely natural. Regrettably it's one which is significantly underexposed, almost certainly a box camera negative. The loco's history is well known but for the sake of completeness I'll repeat the BR bit of it here. BR Database advises, fom SLS records, that "04/10/1958. E.R. locomotive news. C12 67352 is now acting as Station pilot, Grantham and is ex-works, fully lined out; J52 68846 is ex-works, fully lined out at Hornsey; L.T.S.R. 4-4-2T 41969 is ex-works in unlined black at Plaistow; 61632, Belvoir Castle has been renamed Royal Sovereign and was ex-Stratford mid-October whilst 61671 was still in scrap yard with nameplates Royal Sovereign." Having been lined 68846 was clearly a celebrated loco even as far back as 1958. It went to Hornsey from New England at the end of March 1956, then to Kings Cross during March 1959 from where it was withdrawn, directly in to preservation. on 8th May 1959.
We have no information on the J50 behind 68846 and so far I've not seen a J50 on any of these negatives. Perhaps a missed opportunity.....
Brian
We have no information on the J50 behind 68846 and so far I've not seen a J50 on any of these negatives. Perhaps a missed opportunity.....
Brian
oldravendale
Western Thunderer
Yorkshire Dave
Western Thunderer
I thought the C14 4-4-2T's were mainly used for the Chesham shuttle until the 1960 electrification.
oldravendale
Western Thunderer
It's true that they were used - there's photographic evidence - but I remember Ivatt Class 2 2-6-2Ts in the run up to electrification. Very occasionally one of the Met Railway E Class 0-4-4Ts would appear as well. I can't say I have any evidence of the N5s in use but I'm trying to think of a reason for any of them being fitted with push-pull gear if not for the Chesham branch.
Brian
Brian
LarryG
Western Thunderer
Five N5's were fitted with trip cock gear for working over the mainline of the former Metropolitan Railway, Nos. 5540, 5930,9315, 9350 and 5773. 69315 lost this equipment in 1948.
No.5523 was fitted with vacuum controlled push pull equipment in April 1942 to act as stand-by engine for the Chesham Branch shuttle service. The service had been converted to motor train working during WW2, worked initially by push-pull fitted C13's. As 69257, the N5 subsequently found employment elsewhere.
Info: Locos of the LNER Part 9A.
No.5523 was fitted with vacuum controlled push pull equipment in April 1942 to act as stand-by engine for the Chesham Branch shuttle service. The service had been converted to motor train working during WW2, worked initially by push-pull fitted C13's. As 69257, the N5 subsequently found employment elsewhere.
Info: Locos of the LNER Part 9A.
oldravendale
Western Thunderer
Thanks for clarifying the trip cock apparatus on the N5, Larry.
Moving back to "Neasden MPD. 12th April 1958". This is L1 2-6-4T 67753 at its home shed, Neasden. I only remember seeing one L1 at Neasden and that was 67739 in derelict condition on 7th October 1961 by which time the Fairburn 2-6-4 tanks had taken over the commuter services from Marylebone and the Met services from Rickmansworth. 67753 was newly allocated to Neasden in December 1948 but spent a short time at Kings Cross From November 1949 to April 1950 when it returned to Neasden. It was then allocated to Neasden (34E) until 1st February 1958, the time of the supposed change of ownership from the ER to the LMR when it was shown as "on loan" although it was officially allocated there as 14D from later the same month. In November the same year it moved to Colwick, shown as on loan to the ER before being allocated to Colwick at the end of December 1958. Withdrawal followed in early 1962 but we don't know the disposal details.
Somewhat strangely the SLS reported this (taken from BRDatabase): "30/04/1954 York MPD During this period the South shed was temporarily reopened while repairs were being effected to the turntable in No. 4 roundhouse at the North shed. New Standard Class 3 2-6-0's from Swindon 77002 and 77003 called at York on 17/3/54 and 19/3/54 respectively en route for Darlington. The following Ll 2-6-4T's called at York en route from the south to Darlington Works for repair: 67792 (34E)-19/3/54, 67718 (34E)-29/3/54, 67756-9/4/54. On this latter date 67753 (34B) passed through York resplendent ex-Darlington Works" This is strange only because, at the time, 34B was Hornsey shed and there is no evidence of 67753 ever being officially allocated there.
Edit - I'm just wondering whether the 34E shedplate could have been misread as 34B. That seems the most likely explanation.
Brian
Moving back to "Neasden MPD. 12th April 1958". This is L1 2-6-4T 67753 at its home shed, Neasden. I only remember seeing one L1 at Neasden and that was 67739 in derelict condition on 7th October 1961 by which time the Fairburn 2-6-4 tanks had taken over the commuter services from Marylebone and the Met services from Rickmansworth. 67753 was newly allocated to Neasden in December 1948 but spent a short time at Kings Cross From November 1949 to April 1950 when it returned to Neasden. It was then allocated to Neasden (34E) until 1st February 1958, the time of the supposed change of ownership from the ER to the LMR when it was shown as "on loan" although it was officially allocated there as 14D from later the same month. In November the same year it moved to Colwick, shown as on loan to the ER before being allocated to Colwick at the end of December 1958. Withdrawal followed in early 1962 but we don't know the disposal details.
Somewhat strangely the SLS reported this (taken from BRDatabase): "30/04/1954 York MPD During this period the South shed was temporarily reopened while repairs were being effected to the turntable in No. 4 roundhouse at the North shed. New Standard Class 3 2-6-0's from Swindon 77002 and 77003 called at York on 17/3/54 and 19/3/54 respectively en route for Darlington. The following Ll 2-6-4T's called at York en route from the south to Darlington Works for repair: 67792 (34E)-19/3/54, 67718 (34E)-29/3/54, 67756-9/4/54. On this latter date 67753 (34B) passed through York resplendent ex-Darlington Works" This is strange only because, at the time, 34B was Hornsey shed and there is no evidence of 67753 ever being officially allocated there.
Edit - I'm just wondering whether the 34E shedplate could have been misread as 34B. That seems the most likely explanation.
Brian
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