Prototype Tim Mills' Photos

[Martin Shaw]

45631 was paper transferred to Crewe North 8/64 and wdn w/e 22/8/64.
Martin

 

[Barry37]

That's a remarkable bit of detective work, Dave. I've lived in the area for around fifty years and didn't recognise it. I didn't know about the isolation hospital either. Next time I drive along Newground Road I'll look for signs of it. The Ward Block still exists as a rather attractive private house (for those with a Flickr account - not me! - see

https://flic.kr/p/2jor8FC

) and there is quite a bit written about it and the association it had with Tring isolation hospital (I believe also now private houses - I'll have to check as there has been redevelopment of the site as well) in local history society documentation and otherwise on line see PUBLIC HEALTH COMES TO TRING.. Thank you for that - I suspect that very few of our neighbours are aware it ever existed and I'll doubtless impress bore them with my local "found" knowledge! Sadly the Valiant Trooper, although it still exists as a pub, is a shadow of its previous self.

In fact, for anyone interested in local history this is a right royal rabbit hole. When I have a spare weekend I'll try to read everything and educate myself further. In this respect, from "Tring in 1947" - Hertfordshire Genealogy: Book: Tring in 1947 - All quiet on the Hospital Front

"Councillor Dorian Williams said that with the ambulance which relies on a local milkman’s horse it means that it would be quicker to transport cases to Hemel Hempstead or St Albans. … The Clerk said they did not rely upon a horse ambulance these days. They had an arrangement with Aldbury hospital to use their motor ambulance. Bucks Herald, 7th March " made me smile.

As for Tim's "entourage" I believe that may be Tim's brother in law - or the chap who'd become Tim's brother in law. I didn't know Tim in 1962. He had many friends with similar interests with whom I was not acquainted, of course. I'll also now attribute all the photos "near Tring Station" and "taken lineside at/near Tring" to the same location.

On to the business of the day.
​

Seen previously in posts #881 and #927 is maroon Princess Coronation 46238, City of Carlisle near Tring Station on 14th April 1962. This had been a Camden engine for a while in the 50s but was moved to Carlisle Upperby in June 1952. (SLS). It was withdrawn from there in September 1964 and was despatched at Arnott Young in Troon in the December. (BR Database).

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Another ex-Western Region Britannia, this time 70019 Lightning on a down fitted freight taken lineside at Tring on 14th April 1962. This was another loco transferred to the LMR at Carlisle Kingmoor in September 1961 then Longsight in June and Crewe North in September, both 1962, Aston in June and Crewe North in October 1963, Crewe South in June 1965 and Carlisle Upperby in August the same year where it was withdrawn in March 1966. (SLS). It went to West of Scotland Shipbreaking at Troon for disposal which was completed the following June. (BR Database).

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The real 46103 Royal Scots Fusilier (see the previous post and img3437) on the up Lakes Express from the lineside at Tring on 14th April 1962. The loco was allocated to Saltley in July 1961 from where it was loaned to Leicester Midland in May 1962 and then went in to store at Saltley even though ex-works in early June, Carlisle Upperby later in June 1962 and Holbeck four months later where it was withdrawn in December. (SLS). It was reported in store at Farnley Junction from January to August 1963 and then observed at Crewe Works C Shop on 29th September the same year. (WHTS). BR Database record a scrapping date the same month.

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Jubilee 45631 Tanganyika on a down Liverpool train lineside at Tring on 14th April 1962. Seen previously in post #2621 it was a Crewe North engine from July 1961, moving to Saltley in March 1963 where it was withdrawn in August 1964 (SLS) although Rail UK and BR Database advise withdrawal from Crewe North in August or September 1964. There is general agreement, though, that it was scrapped at Cashmore's, Great Bridge, at the end of 1964. (BR Database).

View attachment 227657

Brian

​

70019's train includes a BR (or LNER) brake van as the fifth vehicle, and three twin door vans. Probably also a sheeted container, about 2/3 along the train.

 

[AJC]

70019's train includes a BR (or LNER) brake van as the fifth vehicle, and three twin door vans. Probably also a sheeted container, about 2/3 along the train.

I reckon the twin door vans are both SR (look at the roof profiles). The first is either a CCT or a PMV while the second looks to be a BY - note the slightly wider door spacing and what looks like a periscope on the roof. The former got everywhere, being common user across the regions, the latter were more tightly controlled, but they certainly escaped the Southern fairly often.

Adam

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

I reckon the twin door vans are both SR (look at the roof profiles). The first is either a CCT or a PMV while the second looks to be a BY - note the slightly wider door spacing and what looks like a periscope on the roof. The former got everywhere, being common user across the regions, the latter were more tightly controlled, but they certainly escaped the Southern fairly often.

As did the SR bogie variants. This is one of my dad's slides taken at Hemel Hempstead and Boxmoor in 1960/61 - with an interesting heavily sheeted and modified grounded coach body (ex-LNWR?) on the platform.

 

[oldravendale]

Your detailed info about the end of 45631 is much appreciated, Martin @Martin Shaw , as is yours regarding the vans, Barry @Barry37 , Adam @AJC and Dave @Yorkshire Dave . That photo at Boxmoor is an eye opener for me - we visited from Harrow occasionally for a "day out in the country" and I remember nothing of HH & B Station of the time at all. That is a scene that's totally changed. I wonder what a van entitled "Newspaper Traffic Waterloo Weymouth" was doing at Hemel anyway.

A bumper bundle of photos today before we move on to a series at a different time and away from Tring.

Previously seen in posts #2891 and #4043 is Royal Scot 46169 The Boy Scout on an up Birmingham train at Tring on 14th April 1962. It was at Crewe North in September 1959, then Annesley in January 1963 where it was withdrawn the following May. (SLS). It was scrapped at Crewe Works by the end of August 1963. (Rail UK).



A Princess Coronation previously in post #942 on the down Shamrock taken lineside at Tring on 14th April 1962. This is 46254, City of Stoke on Trent and by September 1960 it was a Crewe North engine, came up to Camden in March 1963, back to Crewe North the following May and was withdrawn from there, along with so many of the class, in September 1964. (SLS). It went to Cashmore's Great Bridge for scrapping which was done in December. (BR Database).



Royal Scot 46152 The King’s Dragoon Guardsman on the up Welshman from the lineside at Tring on 14th April 1962. The loco was based at Llandudno Junction from September 1961, went to Holyhead in March 1962 and finally Carlisle Kingmoor in January 1965 where it was withdrawn in the following April. It was scrapped at Motherwell Machinery and Scrap at Wishaw (RO) where it was seen on 7th July 1965. (WHTS). BR Database confirm a scrapping date in July.



Princess Coronation 46245 City of London has been seen previously in post #1379 and is here from the lineside at Tring on 14th April 1962. It was a Camden engine from at least January 1948 (BR Database) although it moved to Willesden in September 1963 before going to Crewe North in August 1964 where it was withdrawn September (SLS) and was scrapped at Cashmore's Great Bridge during December 1964. (BR Database).



Seen previously in post #3787 this is Princess Coronation 46239 City of Chester on a down Wolverhampton train taken from the lineside at Tring on 14th April 1962. It was a Camden engine from at least 1948 until September 1963 when it moved to Holyhead, then Willesden a month later and finally Crewe North in September 1964 before withdrawal within the month. (SLS). It went to Cashmore's Great Bridge for disposal which was complete by the end of December (BR Database). The SLS agrees with these dates in approximate terms.



Another seen previously but in posts #1404 and #4207 is Princess Coronation 46248 City of Leeds on a down express from the train window probably on the up slow line passing Willesden on 14th July 1962. Note the six wheel bogie stock to the right of the loco and the shed coaling tower above the coach in the background. 46248 was allocated to Camden in July 1960, moved to Carlisle Upperby on loan in August the same year and was then allocated to Crewe North in September 1960 before coming back to Camden in the same month. (SLS). 46248 was withdrawn in September 1964 and was disposed of in November at Cashmore's Great Bridge. (BR Database).



Brian

 

[Barry37]

I reckon the twin door vans are both SR (look at the roof profiles). The first is either a CCT or a PMV while the second looks to be a BY - note the slightly wider door spacing and what looks like a periscope on the roof. The former got everywhere, being common user across the regions, the latter were more tightly controlled, but they certainly escaped the Southern fairly often.

Adam

It could well be a BY - hint of second periscope and stovepipe. The second van from the front could also be an ex-SR van: 12ton type, with even planks.

 

[John Palmer]

The 12-wheeler immediately adjacent to City of Leeds in img3447 is a rather interesting vehicle. It began life in 1925 as what is probably best described as an 'unclassified' kitchen/dining car, in that it was interchangeably employed as a First or Third Class dining car according to the demands of traffic. Unusually, it was constructed by the LMS with LNWR styling as part of a batch of 6 vehicles to Diagram 1743, these being the only dining cars to be built by the LMS in what is conventionally referred to as its Period I design phase. In 1954 all six of these kitchen/diners were rebuilt at Wolverton as Kitchen Buffet cars and allocated the diagram number 2180. The conversion involved elimination of four of the five seating bays in the original dining area, these being replaced by a buffet counter and display case having a length just shy of 12.5' and a circulating area for standing customers. The retained kitchen facilities were such that the vehicles were still capable of furnishing cooking facilities sufficient to feed the passengers occupying an adjacent dining carriage. All six of these RKBs (as they had become) retained after conversion their original LMS numbers occupying the block 222-227 until their disposal in the accounting periods between 12/61 and 13/62, so the vehicle shown is within the final 6 months of her lifespan. At least one, numbered 223, was captured on film with an 'E' prefix to the number, suggesting allocation away from the LMR at some stage in her post-conversion career.

Regarding the roof-boarded Van Bs, the supplements/appendices to Southern Region Western District Carriage Working Notices contain quite a lot of details about the newspaper workings of the vans bearing such boards. The Winter 1960 Supplement makes reference to 'vans which carry roof boards "Newspaper Traffic Waterloo-West of England"' which perhaps sugggests a change from boards specifying a particular destination to one that was more generic.

 

[Dave Holt]

The Sots look fairly dirty and work stained but the Coronations look clean and in tip top condition. It's hard to think they'd all be gone so soon. What a waste.
Dave,

 

[djparkins]

It could well be a BY - hint of second periscope and stovepipe. The second van from the front could also be an ex-SR van: 12ton type, with even planks

I would say a ‘B’ van judging by the length

DJP

 

[oldravendale]

Thank you Barry @Barry37 , John @John Palmer and David @djparkins for the extras about the van. Particular thanks to you, John, for the additional details about that six-wheel-bogie-vehicle. I remember these and thought them so elegant but knew nothing about them. As for yours, Dave @Dave Holt , much as I loved the Scots I remember hearing that the first of the Coros were withdrawn and couldn't believe it. I thought hey were front line engines for ever although that was not to be.

Here we'll go back to when they were still in their heyday. These are some of the earliest of Tim’s photos so technically most are not perfect but what they lack in technical perfection they make up for in the period feel and often the rarity of the subject matter. They appear late in the scheme of things because one day, when I was showing Tim some scans he asked "Why have you not scanned the frames from film No1?" My reply was that I'd done so but, of course, I hadn't and nor had I dealt with some of the other earlier ones. We hope you'll enjoy these.

A4 60031 Golden Plover has previously been in post #2971 and others. Here it’s at Kings Cross on 14th June 1958. To repeat earlier comments this loco has featured three times previously and this photo actually very effectively answers the question of whether a Haymarket engine got as far as London. Well, here's the living proof! It was at Haymarket from new (BR Database), then to St Rollox in February 1962 and was withdrawn from there at the end of October 1965. (SLS). It was scrapped at Campbells, Shieldhall, in December the same year. (BR Database). Note the bunker of an L1 2-6-4T intruding at the left of frame.

Edit. I've just noticed an N2 0-6-2T in the background coming up from "The Drain"...



A3 60056 Centenary at Kings Cross on 14th June 1958. This was a Grantham engine and had been since February 1953 where it was withdrawn in May 1963. Apparently it went in to Doncaster Works for repair but was cut up instead. (All SLS). It was fitted with a double chimney at a General service at Doncaster between May and July 1959 and trough deflectors were fitted, again at Doncaster during a general overhaul in August to September 1962. It was seen in Doncaster Works stripping road in May 1963. (SLS).



Class B17 4-6-0 61623 Lambton Castle at Liverpool Street probably on 14th June 1958. This was allocated to Cambridge in December 1945 where it was withdrawn in July 1959. It was seen in Doncaster Works for condition reports on 11th August 1959 where it was scrapped later the same month. (BR Database and SLS).



Brian

 

[timbowales]

Brian, they may not be "technically perfect" but as an historic record they're invaluable