Prototype Tim Mills' Photos

[Yorkshire Dave]

Royal Scot 46110 Grenadier Guardsman on a down fitted freight at North Wembley on 13th July 1962. This has been on these pages quite recently, in posts #2595 and #2631. 46110 belonged to Edge Hill at the time and moved to Carlisle Kingmoor in July 1963 where it was withdrawn in February 1964. (SLS). It was scrapped at J McWilliams, Shettleston by the end of December. (Rail UK). Ex LMS DC unit on the down Watford line in the right background.

The open girder bridge in the background carries the Neasden Junction to South Ruislip GC line to the GC & GW joint line. Today used by Marylebone - High Wycombe, Princes Risborough, Banbury and Birmingham Moor St Chiltern services.

Once again the interesting stuff is not the train.
Love that BICC minibus in the photo of 70033 at Tring

It is a Ford Thames 400E Minibus.

BICC was British Insulated Callender's Cables who owned the construction company Balfour Beatty. During the 1990s the cable divisions were sold off and BICC renamed itself to the Balfour Beatty Group.

 

[oldravendale]

Thank you Tim @timbowales , Arun and Dave @Yorkshire Dave for the BICC and minibus references. Very relevant to the times and what was coming to the WCML.

And hello again Barry @Barry37 . I'm in no position to comment on the architectural excellence or otherwise of that platelayers' hut but hope it may provide a modelling example, inspiration and perhaps prototype basis for a lineside feature.

Royal Scot 46128 The Lovat Scouts has been seen previously in post #2625. Here it’s on an up special at Tring Station on 14th July 1962. The Royal Scot was a Crewe North engine where it was allocated in October 1954 although it went on loan to Longsight in November the same year, back to Crewe North in March 1955 and then on loan again to Holyhead in May 1957 although apparently only for a brief period as it returned to Crewe North in the same month, reallocated to Carlisle Upperby in May 1962, then back to Crewe North in June 1962, Springs Branch in October the same year and finally Carlisle Kingmoor in November 1962 where it was withdrawn in May 1965. (SLS). It was scrapped at Motherwell Machinery and Scrap, Wishaw, in July. (Rail UK).



Standard Class 5 4-6-0 73013 on a down Bletchley and Northampton train on 13th July 1962. We saw this last in posts #2040 and #3623. It moved to Willesden from Chester in May 1960 then Bletchley in March 1964, Oxley February 1965, Banbury five months later thereafter ending up at Bolton in May 1966 where it was immediately withdrawn. (SLS). It went to Cashmore's Great Bridge where it was scrapped during August the same year. (BR Database).



An unidentified Standard Class 5 4-6-0 on a down special at North Wembley on 13th July 1962.



Jubilee Class 45730 Ocean on an up special at North Wembley on 13th July 1962. This was a Carnforth engine at the time and had been since September 1961, going to Warrington Dallam in July 1963 where it was withdrawn the following October. It then went to Ward’s at Beighton, Sheffield, (RO) where it was scrapped in March 1965. (BR Database). 1938 Bakerloo Line tube stock in the distance on the left, on the up DC line to Queens Park.



Brian

 

[Arun Sharma]

And hello again Barry @Barry37 . I'm in no position to comment on the architectural excellence or otherwise of that platelayers' hut but hope it may provide a modelling example, inspiration and perhaps prototype basis for a lineside feature.

As it happens, that LNER platelayers hut does exist as a 7mm kit - sold by Dave Hammersley at Roxey Mouldings. Kit designed by someone not a million miles from here.

 

[Barry37]

As it happens, that LNER platelayers hut does exist as a 7mm kit - sold by Dave Hammersley at Roxey Mouldings. Kit designed by someone not a million miles from here.

There are 4mm scale kits, too.
The wood (sleeper-built) one I designed was the first Cambrian Models kit, in early 1975.

 

[Osgood]

......It is a Ford Thames 400E Minibus.

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

Nice period advertising film. The opening shots are around the Churchill Gardens Estate in Pimlico.

 

[oldravendale]

Thank you for the info about the Platelayers' Hut, Arun and Barry @Barry37 . Not even a need to scratch build it, then! Just build and plonk (appropriately!)

Thanks for yours about the Ford van too, Tony @Osgood and the additional location info, Dave @Yorkshire Dave . Reminded me of my band days of 50+ years ago. (There's the drum kit. Just hit the top bit as hard as you can. Doesn't have to be in time.) Ours was an ancient Bedford CA.

Seen previously in post #1404 is Princess Coronation 46248 City of Leeds on an up Glasgow train at North Wembley on 13th July 1962. 46248 was allocated to Camden in July 1960, moved to Carlisle Upperby on loan in August the same year and was then allocated to Crewe North in September 1960 before coming back to Camden in the same month. (SLS). 46248 was withdrawn in September 1964 and was disposed of in November at Cashmore's Great Bridge. (BR Database).



Another loco seen previously, but in post #2355 is Royal Scot 46159 The Royal Air Force on a down Perth sleeper at North Wembley on 13th July 1962. The loco was allocated to Willesden in February 1961 and withdrawn from there in December 1962. (SLS). WHTS record it as in store at Willesden between October 1962 and 17th February 1963 when it was observed there and later at Crewe Works. It was scrapped in the middle of March the same year. (BR Database). There's another up Bakerloo line train of 1938 stock to the right.



We saw rebuilt Patriot 45529 Stephenson last in post #3783 but here it’s on a down Perth relief at North Wembley on 13th July 1962. It was allocated to Willesden in February 1961, going to Annesley in October 1963 where it was withdrawn in February 1964. (SLS). It was observed at Crewe Works (WHTS) and was scrapped in February 1964. (BR Database).



This loco was in the very first posting, #1, back in October 2020. Don’t time fly when you’re having fun? It’s A1 Class 60123, H A Ivatt, here on a down fitted freight at Hornsey on 7th July 1962. It was at Ardsley from September 1951, moving to Copley Hill Leeds in October 1957 and then back to Ardsley in May 1962 where it was withdrawn in the following October. (SLS). BR Database reports that it went to Doncaster Works for disposal, agreed by WHTS who advise it was photographed at Doncaster with front end damage on 29 September 1962, condemned and seen in the works yard on 14th October.



A view of Hornsey MPD on 7th July 1962, perhaps better described as a row of mineral wagons. Hornsey Shed closed to steam in July 1961 and was converted for use as a diesel depot until May 1971 when the allocation was moved to Finsbury Park so by the time of the photo was probably empty and unused although in 1973 was extensively rebuilt and became an EMU depot.



Brian

 

[LarryG]

Last picture (above).....A mineral wagon with cupboard doors. I built one from kits in 4mm and 7mm but have completely forgotten their history.

 

[timbowales]

Last picture (above).....A mineral wagon with cupboard doors. I built one from kits in 4mm and 7mm but have completely forgotten their history.

Larry, these were wagons built in the UK to French standards for use in Europe after the liberation. For some reason the French weren't very grateful so we got most of them back sharpish!

 

[Barry37]

Larry, these were wagons built in the UK to French standards for use in Europe after the liberation. For some reason the French weren't very grateful so we got most of them back sharpish!

They were given D1/112, of which there were 6,892, according to Don Rowland. He suggests that French railways found them to be on the small side, presumably capacity, rather than, say, width in relation to unloading facilities.

 

[oldravendale]

Useful stuff about the cupboard door wagon - and well noticed in the first place, Larry! Thanks to Tim @timbowales and Barry @Barry37 for the additional info.

A sadly very underexposed B1 61393 on an up fitted freight at Hornsey on 7th July 1962. The loco was allocated to New England in November 1959, Kings Cross in February 1960 and Mexborough in June 1963. It was withdrawn in September the same year. (SLS). It was scrapped at Cashmore’s, Great Bridge in the same month. (BR Database).

Edit: Now confirmed as a fish train.



Black 5 44860 on an up extra at North Wembley on 13th July 1962. 44860 was a Rugby engine in April 1950 which, as was common with the Black 5s, moved around a bit via Willesden in July 1964 and Banbury in October 1965 before ending up at Stoke in October 1966 where it was withdrawn in January 1967. (SLS). It went to Cohen's at Kettering where it was dismantled in April 1968. (BR Database).



One of my favourites among Tim's photos and one I included in an A3 format book I titled "The Best of The Best" of what I considered to be his finest photos and which I was able to complete and send to him before he died. Seen previously here, in posts #2618 and #2631, this is Princess Coronation 46233 Duchess of Sutherland on the down Merseyside Express apparently having a race with a London Transport 1938 stock tube train at North Wembley on 13th July 1962. However, a race it was not as the 1938 stock was going up to London and the Princess Coronation travelling in the opposite direction. 46233 was an Edge Hill engine in September 1960 and was withdrawn in February 1964. It was, however, an escapee from the cutter's torch and survives in preservation by way of a Butlins holiday camp and Alan Bloom’s collection - see

46233 Duchess of Sutherland (LMS 6233 & BR 46233)

46233 (as 6233) was outshopped in July 1938 from Crewe Works and was part of the third batch of its class. These were unstreamlined, painted in LMS standard crimson lake livery and had a single chi…

preservedbritishsteamlocomotives.com

This is the second photo of the same subject. I can imagine Tim's frustration at the time of having a boring LT EMU passing in front of the camera just as an express with wonderful smoke effects was passing so a second shot of the train going away was the substitute.



Brian

 

[djparkins]

Useful stuff about the cupboard door wagon - and well noticed in the first place, Larry! Thanks to Tim @timbowales and Barry @Barry37 for the additional info.

A sadly very underexposed B1 61393 on an up fitted freight at Hornsey on 7th July 1962. The loco was allocated to New England in November 1959, Kings Cross in February 1960 and Mexborough in June 1963. It was withdrawn in September the same year. (SLS). It was scrapped at Cashmore’s, Great Bridge in the same month. (BR Database).

View attachment 227096

Black 5 44860 on an up extra at North Wembley on 13th July 1962. 44860 was a Rugby engine in April 1950 which, as was common with the Black 5s, moved around a bit via Willesden in July 1964 and Banbury in October 1965 before ending up at Stoke in October 1966 where it was withdrawn in January 1967. (SLS). It went to Cohen's at Kettering where it was dismantled in April 1968. (BR Database).

View attachment 227097

One of my favourites among Tim's photos and one I included in an A3 format book I titled "The Best of The Best" of what I considered to be his finest photos and which I was able to complete and send to him before he died. Seen previously here, in posts #2618 and #2631, this is Princess Coronation 46233 Duchess of Sutherland on the down Merseyside Express apparently having a race with a London Transport 1938 stock tube train at North Wembley on 13th July 1962. However, a race it was not as the 1938 stock was going up to London and the Princess Coronation travelling in the opposite direction. 46233 was an Edge Hill engine in September 1960 and was withdrawn in February 1964. It was, however, an escapee from the cutter's torch and survives in preservation by way of a Butlins holiday camp and Alan Bloom’s collection - see

46233 Duchess of Sutherland (LMS 6233 & BR 46233)

46233 (as 6233) was outshopped in July 1938 from Crewe Works and was part of the third batch of its class. These were unstreamlined, painted in LMS standard crimson lake livery and had a single chi…

preservedbritishsteamlocomotives.com

View attachment 227098

This is the second photo of the same subject. I can imagine Tim's frustration at the time of having a boring LT EMU passing in front of the camera just as an express with wonderful smoke effects was passing so a second shot of the train going away was the substitute.

View attachment 227099

Brian

1938 stock boring - nooooo!

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

One of my favourites among Tim's photos and one I included in an A3 format book I titled "The Best of The Best" of what I considered to be his finest photos and which I was able to complete and send to him before he died. Seen previously here, in posts #2618 and #2631, this is Princess Coronation 46233 Duchess of Sutherland on the down Merseyside Express apparently having a race with a London Transport 1938 stock tube train at North Wembley on 13th July 1962. However, a race it was not as the 1938 stock was going up to London and the Princess Coronation travelling in the opposite direction. 46233 was an Edge Hill engine in September 1960 and was withdrawn in February 1964. It was, however, an escapee from the cutter's torch and survives in preservation by way of a Butlins holiday camp and Alan Bloom’s collection - see

46233 Duchess of Sutherland (LMS 6233 & BR 46233)

46233 (as 6233) was outshopped in July 1938 from Crewe Works and was part of the third batch of its class. These were unstreamlined, painted in LMS standard crimson lake livery and had a single chi…

preservedbritishsteamlocomotives.com

This is the second photo of the same subject. I can imagine Tim's frustration at the time of having a boring LT EMU passing in front of the camera just as an express with wonderful smoke effects was passing so a second shot of the train going away was the substitute.

Nothing 'boring' with the LT 1938 tube stock - look down the train and you'll see two different bodyside and roof profiles.

The driving motor cars are of 1938 origin but the intermediate trailing cars are converted 1927 Standard stock - known as '58' trailers.

58 1927 Standard stock trailer cars were made surplus as a result of reforming Standard stock sets to concentrate them the Piccadilly and Central lines. These Standard stock set reformations released 58 trailer cars which were then converted for operation with 1938 driving motor cars stock allowing the 1938 stock to be concentrated on the Bakerloo and Northern lines.

 

[AJC]

1938 stock boring - nooooo!

Best picture in the post!

The - sadly underexposed - B1 is another fish working. Quite a mixed consist which would have been (relatively) colourful. The first couple are uninsulated: I'm not too well up on fish vans, but wagon 1 looks like one LNER type (planked, not plywood) - a few of these were retro-fitted with insulation and inset doors by BR - wagon 3 is one of those - and would have been bauxite in original condition, wagon 2 might well be an LMS van (and I think these were crimson lake). The rest would have been white(ish).

Adam

 

[oldravendale]

Thank you Dave @djparkins and Dave @Yorkshire Dave , and I'm pleased you like the photo too, Adam @AJC . With apologies I appear to have stepped on a corn or two! Fromm the perspective of today the 1938 stock is, I agree, far from boring. I'm relating my comment to the 1950s and 60s when our regular train service to London was on the Bakerloo from Stanmore. After all, there was only ever (in my time) the single class of stock in use and they were, let's say, repetitive. However, when the train reached Wembley Park things improved with many different sorts of stock on the Met, including loco hauled trains, and the parallel ex GC lines. The trick was to get across the platform in to one of the Met trains to Baker Street with only one stop at Finchley Road and overtake one or sometimes two Bakerloo trains. Happy days!

Once again, Adam, I appreciate your advice on the train at Hornsey. All info safely gathered in.

A4 60022 Mallard on a down Newcastle train at Potters Bar on 7th July 1962. We’ve seen the loco a few times previously and quite recently in post #3517. It was a Kings Cross engine from April 1948 being withdrawn from there in April 1963. Its life thereafter is well documented elsewhere. See

60022 Mallard (LNER 4468, LNER 607, LNER 22, BR E22 & BR 60022)

4468 Mallard was built for the London and North Eastern Railway (LNER) at Doncaster, in March 1938 at a cost of £8,500. It is historically significant as the holder of the world speed record for st…

preservedbritishsteamlocomotives.com

Notable for being the first photo in this thread at post #1 A1 Class 60123, H A Ivatt, in two photos here, clearly on the same van and container train at Potters Bar on 7th July 1962. Another very recent post showing the loco at Hornsey on the same day with a different fitted train suggests it was being kept busy. It was at Ardsley from September 1951, moving to Copley Hill Leeds in October 1957 and then back to Ardsley in May 1962 where it was withdrawn in the following October. (SLS). BR Database reports that it went to Doncaster Works for disposal, agreed by WHTS who advise it was photographed at Doncaster with front end damage on 29 September 1962, condemned and seen in the works yard on 14th October.





Two photos of A4 60008 Dwight D Eisenhower on the 3.26 from York passing A1 60117 Bois Roussel on the 6.12 to Leeds at Potters Bar on 7th July 1962. This A4 has been seen previously in posts #3036 and #4121. At the time of this photo it was a Kings Cross engine and had been since October 1957. It moved to New England in June 1963 and was withdrawn in July the same year. (SLS). On 27th April 1964 it was shipped to the USA and is now in the museum at Green Bay, Wisconsin. See 60008 Dwight D Eisenhower (LNER 4496, LNER 598, LNER 8 & BR 60008)

As for Bois Roussel (which was previously in post #2389) in 1962 it was a Copley Hill, Leeds engine having been allocated there in February 1953 and moved to Ardsley in September 1964 before ending up at Gateshead in December 1964 where it was withdrawn in June 1965 (SLS) although BR Database and Rail UK give the final allocation as Ardsley. It was disposed of at Clayton & Davie, Dunston on Tyne by the end of August. (BR Database).





Brian

 

[timbowales]

Again Tim managed to capture a "modellers train" behind 60123!

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

Two photos of A4 60008 Dwight D Eisenhower on the 3.26 from York passing A1 60117 Bois Roussel on the 6.12 to Leeds at Potters Bar on 7th July 1962. This A4 has been seen previously in posts #3036 and #4121. At the time of this photo it was a Kings Cross engine and had been since October 1957. It moved to New England in June 1963 and was withdrawn in July the same year. (SLS). On 27th April 1964 it was shipped to the USA and is now in the museum at Green Bay, Wisconsin. See 60008 Dwight D Eisenhower (LNER 4496, LNER 598, LNER 8 & BR 60008)

As for Bois Roussel (which was previously in post #2389) in 1962 it was a Copley Hill, Leeds engine having been allocated there in February 1953 and moved to Ardsley in September 1964 before ending up at Gateshead in December 1964 where it was withdrawn in June 1965 (SLS) although BR Database and Rail UK give the final allocation as Ardsley. It was disposed of at Clayton & Davie, Dunston on Tyne by the end of August. (BR Database).

Interesting pair of photographs as they are taken from different angles. Which implies either Tim was a fast mover to change position and the trains were not travelling at speed if both photographs are on the same negative strip or they were taken by Tim and A N Other if they appear of different negative strips.

 

[daifly]

Definitely two photographers. The same type of positional differences are shown in the 2 photos of 60123 on the freight.
Dave

 

[Barry37]

Again Tim managed to capture a "modellers train" behind 60123!

And some modellers' detail, especially in the Mallard photo:
colour light shunting signals mounted on concrete pillars (several photos),
the extended sleepers for the point motor aren't properly supported,
the trackside drain is rather higher than the surrounding cess.
Perhaps there has been some recent clearing out of the cess, and if lower than the drains, would act as a "sump" for fine matter, keeping it out of the drain pipes.

 

[Arun Sharma]

Thank you for the info about the Platelayers' Hut, Arun and Barry @Barry37 . Not even a need to scratch build it, then! Just build and plonk (appropriately!)

Thanks for yours about the Ford van too, Tony @Osgood and the additional location info, Dave @Yorkshire Dave . Reminded me of my band days of 50+ years ago. (There's the drum kit. Just hit the top bit as hard as you can. Doesn't have to be in time.) Ours was an ancient Bedford CA.

Seen previously in post #1404 is Princess Coronation 46248 City of Leeds on an up Glasgow train at North Wembley on 13th July 1962. 46248 was allocated to Camden in July 1960, moved to Carlisle Upperby on loan in August the same year and was then allocated to Crewe North in September 1960 before coming back to Camden in the same month. (SLS). 46248 was withdrawn in September 1964 and was disposed of in November at Cashmore's Great Bridge. (BR Database).

View attachment 227029

Another loco seen previously, but in post #2355 is Royal Scot 46159 The Royal Air Force on a down Perth sleeper at North Wembley on 13th July 1962. The loco was allocated to Willesden in February 1961 and withdrawn from there in December 1962. (SLS). WHTS record it as in store at Willesden between October 1962 and 17th February 1963 when it was observed there and later at Crewe Works. It was scrapped in the middle of March the same year. (BR Database). There's another up Bakerloo line train of 1938 stock to the right.

View attachment 227030

We saw rebuilt Patriot 45529 Stephenson last in post #3783 but here it’s on a down Perth relief at North Wembley on 13th July 1962. It was allocated to Willesden in February 1961, going to Annesley in October 1963 where it was withdrawn in February 1964. (SLS). It was observed at Crewe Works (WHTS) and was scrapped in February 1964. (BR Database).

View attachment 227031

This loco was in the very first posting, #1, back in October 2020. Don’t time fly when you’re having fun? It’s A1 Class 60123, H A Ivatt, here on a down fitted freight at Hornsey on 7th July 1962. It was at Ardsley from September 1951, moving to Copley Hill Leeds in October 1957 and then back to Ardsley in May 1962 where it was withdrawn in the following October. (SLS). BR Database reports that it went to Doncaster Works for disposal, agreed by WHTS who advise it was photographed at Doncaster with front end damage on 29 September 1962, condemned and seen in the works yard on 14th October.

View attachment 227032

A view of Hornsey MPD on 7th July 1962, perhaps better described as a row of mineral wagons. Hornsey Shed closed to steam in July 1961 and was converted for use as a diesel depot until May 1971 when the allocation was moved to Finsbury Park so by the time of the photo was probably empty and unused although in 1973 was extensively rebuilt and became an EMU depot.

View attachment 227033

Brian

Regarding: HA Ivatt - On 7 September 1962, No. 60123 H.A. Ivatt suffered harsh collision damage after running into a train at Offord. Four people were injured in the incident. It was withdrawn a month later and scrapped at Doncaster. Photographs of the damaged front end have occasionally been published,