Monks Ferry: a layout for the Grandchildren.

jonte

Western Thunderer
Morning Jonte,

There are others on here who are better versed in the dark art of DCC but here are a couple of my own thoughts which I hope prove useful to you.

My own requirements for DCC are very simplistic. The trains need to run, and run well. Secondly, if so fitted, they need to make a noise and therefore the controller needs to be able to access the available functions on the sound decoder.

As you're at the very start, to reiterate the advice I was given, avoid cheap decoders. Some can make a nicely running loco run worse. I have experimented and found Lais decoders to be fit only for the bin, as are Rails own brand decoders. DCC Concepts are frankly, not much better and in my case would not provide a gradual stop/start.

I therefore use primarily Zimo or those produced by Zimo for Bachmann and have found that without recourse to tampering with CV settings they can be fitted and used, providing excellent running from the start ( with a loco that runs well on DC as a starting point ). ESU or Lenz are equally suitable alternatives. More expensive but a case of yer gets wot yer pays fur.

Controllerwise, I use a NCE Powercab. Not the ultimate DCC controller but it's user friendly and works well enough. Crucially, it should be Grandchildren friendly and easily grasped, both operationally and literally.

As you probably well know, don't waste your time with a loco that doesn't run well on DC. DCC won't fix that.

The earlier locos which are not DCC Ready can be 'hardwired' however, some early mechanisms such as Lima do not always respond well and experience has shown that the resulting running won't match a more modern mechanism so tge question has to be, is it worth doing ?

As I say, just a few thoughts based on my own somewhat limited experience.

Rob

Morning, Rob, and thanks for your kind advice. This is indeed an area that’s new ground for me.

The only DCC fitted loco in my possession is an 8F, bought on a well known auction site sometime ago and which had erroneously been listed as DC, which I only discovered after I plugged in my DC Gaugemaster…….and nothing happened! (To be fair, the seller was only selling it as part of his recently deceased father’s model railway items, and wasn’t a modeller himself).

My suspicions aroused, I took it to a small model shop and asked the guy to test it for me, whereupon it burst into life via a DCC wired section of test track. He kindly offered to swap it for a DC powered Black 5, but something made me hesitate, at which point he offered me the display DCC controller he’d been using for less than half price, which is how I ended up with my EZ Dynamis power pack! Thanks for recommending your choice of Powercab; perhaps in the future, Rob, but for now, I’m used to the Dynamis which took me long enough…………. Hopefully you’ll understand.

Indeed, I’d already taken stock of your recommendation for the Zimo, which was suitably noted, and which I’d been keeping an eye to. They shall indeed be my decoder of choice, so thanks again. Funnily enough, not long before your recommendation, I’d purchased one of their own decoders from Hattons for a Duke I’d bought from elsewhere; not surprisingly with my track record,it’s still not fitted, so,perhaps I might just use it as ‘first blood’ to cut my teeth with, happy in the knowledge that I’ll have the Zimo to fall back on if it gets fried in the process.

Thanks for the heads-up on poor running locos: they shall be suitably dispensed with.

Your experience with Lima is noted, and something I shall bear in mind when attacking the Hornby Ringfields which I guess aren’t too dissimilar. One of them has quite a decent motor; the other’s a bag of nails, for which I’ll try a CD motor replacement I’ve seen online and which responds quite well to chipping. That said, there’s only one real way to find out, but they’re only fifteen or so quid, so nothing to get too flummoxed about if it all goes awry.

Anyway, thanks again for your advice and interest.

Please pop by to see how I fare.

Jon
 

jonte

Western Thunderer
I’d very much agree with Rob’s thoughts regarding decoders, and add that a keep-alive is worth adding if space allows. And the biggest speaker you can get in.

Hardwiring is generally not too difficult, providing you can entirely isolate the motor terminals from the chassis & pickups. Any connection between pickups and motor is likely to damage the decoder. Whether it’s worth it on any given model is a personal consideration. As is adding lights, etc., of course.

I'm not a fan of the NCE controllers, though they seem to work ok, except the inertia function or whatever it’s called. I understand that it actually reprograms the decoder ACC/DEC values on the fly, which is ok if you know or never use anything other controller, but not if you then use a different controller and have to manually correct your programming.

My preferred controller is a red Roco MultiMaus, which is plugged into my trusty (and twenty five years old) Lenz system. I also use WiThrottle on my iPhone & iPad, and JMRI.

hope this of help
best
Simon

Many thanks, Simon, for the recommendations although I shall only be requiring basic control from a controller; this on a par with my basic brain power.

Interestingly, the benefit of fitting a capacitor - although increasing the overall cost per loco - was the deciding factor of opting for DCC. As I mentioned, I’m trying to iron out all the issues that led to many frustrations with childhood train sets for me so that the Grand kids can gain maximum enjoyment from theirs, stalling on plastic crossings being one of the main ones which should be obviated with capacitors.

Initially, I wanted to keep the idea to a traditional train set, opting for age-old DC power. Indeed, I’d always wanted to give Cab Control a go, something which became easier for me to understand as the years passed and my experience with wiring etc increased. This was something I discussed with a friend. However, this would have seen me redesigning the layout, as the ‘Complicated’ station throat/junction with so many points and crossings in quick succession would have proved too much of a challenge for tank engines especially, to say nothing of having to stop/start locos using the return loop whilst switches were flicked and controllers switched over…………………!

Thanks again for your interest, Simon.

Jon
 

jonte

Western Thunderer
Interesting comments coming up on DCC. I would echo Rob and Simon’s comments on not hitting the cheap end of the market; you do get what you pay for. I started with a Hornby bottom end DCC controller, which was fine for testing purposes. I then mistakenly invested in a ZTC controller, which worked OK but I could never get the slave controller to operate successfully so that went into a box at the back of a cupboard, to be replaced by NCE. I have never had any problems with it and, indeed upgraded to a five amp, four controller operation on Elmham Market, which is serving well.

On chips, I have a mixture but I find that the DCC chips work very well with a Mashima motor attached to a Branchlines gearbox. Mind you, I’m less interested in the sound aspects, more the fact that, with DCC, I’m driving the loco, not just putting volts down on the track. Horses for courses?

Nigel

Many thanks for your kind reassurance, Nigel.

Jon
 

AdeMoore

Western Thunderer
Morning, Ade, and thank you for fruitless efforts, so it would appear, to check up on progress; I’m most flattered and grateful of your interest.

Sadly, the Hall is yet another example of how quickly my interest wanes, which is why I mentioned previously that frequent updating of the thread helps to keep momentum going, especially on a project such as this which is imperative that I finish, boring though it may be for the reader. Hopefully it might serve to help others, even if it’s just to convince them to buy a baseboard kit instead!

I’d like to finish the Hall at some stage as the real life examples in the gallery that Brian sent, set some tough challenges with regard to marks n scars displayed, and the water runs for instance are going to be a real test, as when you scrutinise them, they are not merely a line that fades to a point as regularly modelled by many weatherers, but a broken and sometimes wandering line that’s difficult to replicate with say oils, which are a go-to for many, to say nothing of air brushing, despite having two in my collection. I’ve one or two ideas of my own, but I just don’t seem to get round to testing them.
And then you have a series of them on top of a previous layer, on top of a previous……and so it continues.This is just part of many features displayed by the prototypes in my possession (a real mixed bag of Halls, Castles and Kings) which really whet my appetite, and whether I get there or not is anyone’s guess, but in any case it’ll be way down the list of jobs for the present. That and the poor attempt at replicating the brackets for the missing nameplates will need to be readdressed : as soon as I’d fitted them I thought ‘nah’, and I should have gone with my first idea of using some spare brass fret which represents the rectangular appearance of the prototype far better……now you see, Ade, why I never get anywhere…..

Anyway, sorry for rambling, and thanks again for tuning in. I sincerely hope that I can reward your future interest with some modelling.

Jon
More on the diversion from the topic! I’m in no way any expert but water runs you mentioned, could quite possibly be done with cheap super glue i.e. Very runny applied with a cocktail stick.
I picked the tip up from Simon George of Heaton Lodge fame! Used it for oil effects on brake linkage and axle boxes.
Post in thread 'Starting out in pre 1971 kit building!'
4mm - Starting out in pre 1971 kit building! back in 2019 an example there. May be of little use but I had a happy half hour going back over my old thread!
As for rambling, never a chore, always enjoy any of your content.
 

jonte

Western Thunderer
More on the diversion from the topic! I’m in no way any expert but water runs you mentioned, could quite possibly be done with cheap super glue i.e. Very runny applied with a cocktail stick.
I picked the tip up from Simon George of Heaton Lodge fame! Used it for oil effects on brake linkage and axle boxes.
Post in thread 'Starting out in pre 1971 kit building!'
4mm - Starting out in pre 1971 kit building! back in 2019 an example there. May be of little use but I had a happy half hour going back over my old thread!
As for rambling, never a chore, always enjoy any of your content.

Top work, Ade. Thanks for sharing.

With the right skills and attention to detail, it goes to show that the erstwhile Airfix kits still have much to offer.

With reference to the water runs I mentioned, it’s more a case of limescale runs than clear water, which seem to appear more on the cylinder cases, certainly in the pictures I have. But thank you for the input; something worth investigating.

Jon
 

AdeMoore

Western Thunderer
Ah if its limescale your after isopropyl alcohol is one I use, let down with water I seem to recall.
e.g. Below On top the tender a happy accident so I left it!

381D7BA7-19A7-4297-8122-96D250AB0997.jpeg 07E8C2D9-350C-43E8-B1F0-5C274D352FC6.jpeg
 
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