Prototype Tim Mills' Photos

[oldravendale]

Shades of W H Auden here, but not with the Night Mail. "Past cotton grass and moorland boulder, shovelling white steam over her shoulder". A3 60050 Persimmon hammers through Potters Bar on 22nd December 1962. This was a New England engine from June 1962, withdrawn in June 1963. (SLS). It went in to Doncaster Works for cutting up in August. (BR Database).



A2 60520 Owen Tudor on a down Peterborough train at Potters Bar on 22nd December 1962. This has been in thee pages several times previously. It was a New England engine from October 1962 and was withdrawn in June 1963. (SLS). It also went in to Doncaster Works for scrapping at the end of August. (BR Database).



WD 2-8-0 90454 on an up freight at Potters Bar on 22nd December 1962. It was a March engine at the time of the photo, moving to Retford Thrumpton in November 1963 where it was withdrawn in June 1965. (SLS). It was scrapped in February 1966 at Cox & Danks, Wadsley Bridge. (BR Database). The chap standing between the tracks clearly has no thoughts for his safety!



Brian

 

[76043]

I like the low angle shots.

Looking at the WD on that short freight, those wooden minerals were we are told were all gone by the end of 1962? Maybe it's a loco coal end of the road trip for them?
Tony

 

[oldravendale]

I'd not noticed that, Tony. Those wooden wagons could well be on their last trip. The van doesn't look any too healthy either. On the whole I suspect you may be correct, that the wagons are for loco coal. Could the van be for lighting up timber? Thanks for your thoughts.

I'll be away for a lot of tomorrow so probably will not have time for another posting so I'll try tomorrow's today.

9F 92188 on a down fitted freight at Potters Bar on 22nd December 1962. It was a New England engine, moving to Colwick in June 1963 where it was withdrawn in January 1965. (SLS). It was scrapped at Draper's, Hull, in May. (BR Database).






V2 2-6-2 60912 on an up Peterborough semi fast at Potters Bar on 22nd December 1962. This was at its final shed, New England, and was withdrawn at the end of April 1963. (SLS). It was scrapped a month later at Doncaster Works. (BR Database). Again, look at that idiot now straddling the track!



A1 60154 Bon Accord on a down Newcastle relief train at Potters Bar on 22nd December 1962 passing one of the "new" DMUs and probably a now redundant quad or quint art set in a siding. It was a York North engine, moving to Neville Hill in August 1963 and withdrawal in October 1965. (SLS). It was sold to T W Ward Beighton for scrap in November. (BR Database).



Brian

 

[76043]

Brian, that van looks like a BR standard 12t van, in theory it's no much more than 10 years old.

The Insulfish van behind the 9f also is so filthy, it's had white patch painting highlighting how dirty it is. The BR ply van with later clasp brakes and SR ply van are also worth noting.
Tony

 

[oldravendale]

Thank you for correcting my assumption, Tony. Thanks also for the comments on the train behind the 9F. Every day's a school day.

A pair of very under exposed shots of 60048 Doncaster burnt smokebox door in plain sight on a Cleethorpes arrival at Kings Cross on 22nd December 1962. It received smoke deflectors in November/December 1961. This loco has featured previously in post #2260. Its filthy condition labels it as a New England engine although it moved to Grantham in April 1963, not for long though as the SLS tell us it was withdrawn in October. (SLS). However, BR Database, WHTS and Rail UK both report withdrawal on 8th September which seems more likely as appropriately it went to Doncaster Works for disposal which was completed by 19th September. Confusingly, though, WHTS reports it entering works on 19th September and being observed there on 6th October.






This is recorded as Potters Bar on 22nd December 1962.



V2 60814 on an up parcels at Potters Bar on 22nd December 1962. By now it was a Grantham engine withdrawn from there in April 1963. (SLS). It went to Doncaster Works for disposal which was completed the same month.



A3 60046 Diamond Jubilee on a down relief to Leeds at Potters Bar on 22nd December 1962. We've seen it previously in these postings. It was a at New England and moved to Grantham in April 1963. It was withdrawn from Grantham in June 1963. Deflectors were fitted in October 1961. It was seen at Doncaster in August 1963. (SLS) It was scrapped at Doncaster Works in August 1963. (Rail UK).



An unidentified A3 on a down Doncaster and Hull train at Potters Bar on 22nd December 1962. IMHO the mist adds a bit of artistic flair to this one.



Brian

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

Interesting set of photos taken at Potters Bar in posts #2423 and #2425.

The Cravens DMU entered service in 1959 and were 3 years old when these photos were taken. As the 22 Dec 1962 was a Saturday it would appear the pair of Gresley quad sets in the background were parked ready for next commuter service to either KX or Moorgate on Monday 24th and are nicely lit by the low sun.

You can also tell how cold it was as there are signs of frost on some of the sleepers and in the grass where it hadn't been caught by the sun. These also appear to be the days where you could just stroll across the tracks and quite a few people around too - with at least three of them wearing the classic donkey jacket.

 

[AJC]

Brian, that van looks like a BR standard 12t van, in theory it's no much more than 10 years old.

The Insulfish van behind the 9f also is so filthy, it's had white patch painting highlighting how dirty it is. The BR ply van with later clasp brakes and SR ply van are also worth noting.
Tony

The Insulfish is one of the LNER pattern ones (you can just make out the LNE axleboxes and brakegear) - might be a repaint of the lettering area or a very aggressive clean: both happened. The BR standard ply' van with the clasp brakes was probably built after 1958 but might well be more or less new as batches were released to traffic into 1962. It does emphasise the point that if we're trying to represent that period properly, there should be clean wagons about.

Adam

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

Again, look at that idiot now straddling the track!

He's straddling the loop between the slow and fast lines probably for terminating trains. He also appears to be one of the group of the three (four with Tim?) seen in the same photo and possibly foolhardy enough to cross the tracks to the other side of the embankment as seen in the photo of the unidentified A3.

Five go Trainspotting?

 

[oldravendale]

Thank you, Dave, for the info about the Cravens DMU and compartment stock in the background. We must agree about the weather conditions too! I remember climbing around on railway tracks like that but never standing in the way of potential traffic. Somehow we never got killed! Or perhaps it was so common that no-one thought to make an issue of it.

Very useful stuff about that train as well, Adam, for which I thank you.

9F 92142 on a down fitted freight at Potters Bar on 22nd December 1962. It was allocated to New England when new in 1957, went in to store there in December 1964 and was withdrawn in February 1965. (SLS). What a waste! It was scrapped at Cohen's, Kettering, in February 1966. (BR Database)



A2 60520 Owen Tudor which has graced these pages more times than I can shake a stick at on an up Peterborough train at Potters Bar on 22nd December 1962. It had been allocated to New England since October and was withdrawn in June 1963 (SLS) whence it ended up at Doncaster Works for scrapping at the end of August. (BR Database).



A4 60001 Sir Ronald Matthews on a down Newcastle train at Potters Bar on 22nd December 1962. From notes attached to the info in BR Database and my collection of Locoshed Books it appears to have been a Gateshead engine for its entire life, being withdrawn from there in October 1964. It went to Hughes Bolckows in North Blyth where it was scrapped in January 1965.





In mentioning Locoshed Books above does any reader here have any up to 1968 which they wish to pass on? I have five issues which I find invaluable so a PM will be gratefully received if you can help. Appropriate coinage will, of course, change hands.

Brian

 

[chigley]

keep em coming Brian

 

[oldravendale]

Will do, Ken. We're barely half way through the first collection of Black and white negs, then there's another slightly smaller set of black and whites and an equivalent number of colour slides. This thread will run and run... Well, for as long as there's interest.

A4 60029 Woodcock on an up parcels at Potters Bar on 22nd December 1962. This was a Kings Cross engine at the time of the photo until June 1963 when it moved to New England. (BR Database and SLS). It was withdrawn in October and went to Doncaster Works for scrapping which was completed in January 1964. (BR Database).


Tim identified this as V2 60827 or 60829 light engine down line at Potters Bar 22nd December 1962. 60829 had the misfortune to be a New England engine from 1950 but was withdrawn in May 1962 and 60827 was a St Margarets engine which makes a photo at Potters Bar most unlikely. We'll have to settle for "an unidentified V2".



A1 60145 St Mungo on an up express at Potters Bar on 22nd December 1962. In 1962 it was a Copley Hill, Leeds engine, moving to York North in September 1963 and then Darlington in January 1966. (SLS). It was withdrawn in June and sold for scrap to Draper's in Hull in August.





Brian

 

[76043]

Brian, are the colour images post 1968? If there's any colour images from the steam era that would be great to see sooner rather than later if possible.
Cheers
Tony

 

[oldravendale]

Hello Tony. Tim took quite a lot in colour in the mid to late '6os and, surprising to me as I scan his colour images, the diesel and electric scene thereafter. This whole exercise started eight or nine years ago when Tim asked me to process and print some of his colour photos to be exhibited alongside some of mine at the GCR. For the most part these are recording the run down of steam and the locos are, let's say, not in the best of health. These early displays were then followed by a few of Tim's black and white photos and he actually had a display "ready to go" when he died which were on display at his wake. Furthermore the details accompanying the colour pictures are not even as complete as those accompanying the black and white negs. I'll apply some grey matter to working out how to get these on to WT. It's quite a challenge as the details are built up as the photos go on to WT, then those details have to go with the master copies and, as promised, periodically to Tim's family. There are also commitments to the RPSI and one or two others which Tim promised before his death although predominantly any displays are for the benefit of Tim's first (transport) love, the GCR.

To stop the black and white photos and substitute colour at the moment when I've not completed the scanning of all the colour gives me a bit of a headache!

In short though I'll try to work something out which won't over-complicate the process of archiving all his collection.

Watch this space!

Brian

 

[Dave Holt]

Brian.
I don't think there's any danger of a lack of interest. I for one find all these photos very evocative of the railways I remember, even if the particular subject matter is not my modelling area or era.
Please keep them coming.
Personally, I rather prefer black and white photos of the steam era. They somehow capture the grubby dirtiness of everything before the demise of steam and the clean air act.
Dave.

 

[76043]

Brian, don't muck up your scanning order, no point making things difficult.
Cheers
Tony

 

[oldravendale]

Thank you for your understanding of my quandary! I scanned another 70 or so yesterday but it's an uphill task as I'm dealing with Tim's family photos and trying to glean as much info as I can about those for the family as well. Then there's lots of scenery and football - mainly Arsenal but we can't all be perfect! Of the 70 I scanned around half are railway orientated, but certainly post 1968 being currently mainly of A4 60009. Categorising and recording details of all these as I scan is not difficut - just takes time. I'm still considering how I may be able to show the colour photos alongside the B & W.

Thanks for your continuing enthusiasm, Dave. I can understand the wish to see some colour pics as well, though. They must be of value if only from the perspective of weathering. Nevertheless for today we'll continue the black & white.

A4 60007 Sir Nigel Gresley at Kings Cross on the return leg of a rail tour which Tim records as October 1964. However, 60007 is not recorded on Six Bells Junction as being involved in any rail tours in October 1964. It's carrying a 34E New England shed code where it was shedded between 16 June 1963 and 20 October 1963 before going to Scotland so I believe this to be the LCGB The Mallard Commemorative Railtour (Silver Jubilee Special 1938 - 1963) on 6th July 1973. The significant interest around the loco certainly suggests this was a rail tour.







Although there are no details attached to this it's from the same batch as Hornsey 60106 below so probably October 1964. Judging by the distinctly non-LNER bunkers visible I suspect this is Old Oak with at least one of the turntables gone and which closed to steam on 22nd March 1965 making a date for this photo of October 1964 quite likely. It may be associated with photos of 60009 (see further below) immediately prior to or after 24/10/64 RCTS/SLS Jubilee Requiem rail tour of 24th October 1964 also on the same strip of negatives.



A3 60106 Flying Fox on 2nd May 1964 at Kings Cross on the London - North Eastern Flyer which duty it shared with 4472. It was a New England engine until withdrawn in late December 1964 (SLS) but succumbed to the cutters' torch at King & Sons, Norwich, by the end of February 1965. (Rail UK).



...and details as above but as the loco passes through Hornsey.



A4 60009 Union of South Africa at Hornsey Shed in October 1964 which Tim records as prior to a rail tour. On 24th October 1964 the RCTS and SLS ran the Jubilee Requiem with this loco which seems to fit. Hornsey Shed closed to steam in July 1961 but 60009 may have been a guest if the depot still existed, perhaps as a diesel depot. Although the shed plate is difficult to decipher it looks to commence with a "6" rather than a "3" which suggests that the home depot could have been Aberdeen Ferryhill where it had resided between June 1962 and June 1966.





Brian

 

[oldravendale]

...and with one mighty bound we're in Darlington and the time machine has taken us back a few years.

K1 2-6-0 62026 at Darlington in 1960. This was a long time resident of Blaydon, where it still resided in 1960. From 1962 it moved around the North East ending up at Sunderland according to the SLS where it was withdrawn at the beginning of July 1962. Rail UK and BR Database, however, report it as withdrawn from West Hartlepool although they agree on the date. It went to Arnott Young at Dinsdale where it was scrapped by the end of November 1967. (Rail UK).



Darlington Station in 1960 with J72 0-6-0T 69022. It was shedded at Darlington from new in 1951 and then went to West Hartlepool in September 1961 where it was withdrawn at the end of December 1962. (SLS). It was disposed of at Darlington North Road Works in February 1963. (Rail UK).



For some reason this negative appears in the middle of the Darlington 1960 selection. These are all roll film negatives so in singles, pairs or threes so doubtless this has been filed out of sequence but where it should really fit I've no idea!

An unidentified Merchant Navy in an unknown location and at an unknown date.

Edit: the MN number looks like 35027 or 35023. The electrified fast lines suggest quite a late date - 1966 on. At that time 35027 had a 5500 gallon tender whereas the photo shows a 6000 gallon type - as attached to 35023.

Headcode: Waterloo or Nine Elms and Brockenhurst and Bournemouth West via Sway.

The loco is almost certainly 35023 Holland-Afrika Line, the location courtesy of the good folk at the SRemG is Oatlands Carriage Sidings. The pic is of an up train taken from Sir Richard's Bridge just west of Walton on Thames station.

Re the Merchant Navy earlier I have received this from Mike Arnold of the SRemG.

"My feeling is that this photo is taken earlier than 1965/6 and possibly around 1961/62 as I think that is a Maunsell coach in the siding beyond judging by its straight sides. They were going out of service in droves around that time. Also the Bulleid set looks like it could be a 5-car formation immediately behind the loco of brake semi-open, corridor second, composite (note the windows are 4 and 3), another corridor second….such sets were getting disbanded before 1965/66 and few if any were left in those sets by then – The Royal Wessex seemed to be the exception to that rule. It is an afternoon shot judging by the sunlight in the windows of the huts and possibly late in the year thus ruling out the UP Wessex which was 8.40am off Bournemouth Central arriving around 11.00am into Waterloo (I did catch it a few times and was sometimes early so we were able to see the ACE depart on the next platform at 11 sharp)."



Finally WD 2-8-0 90074 on shed at Darlington in 1965, judging by appearance and the absence of a shed plate probably fresh off works. The SLS recorded this at Darlington Works in July 1961 and at West Hartlepool Shed in August 1967. Flying Pig 43102 which was on Darlington's allocation from September 1960 until October 1965 lurks in the background. The WD was shedded at Wakefield and travelled around the North East ending at West Hartlepool where it was withdrawn in September 1967. (SLS). It was scrapped at Arnott Young, Dinsdale, in November. (BR Database).



Brian

 

[Martin Shaw]

The Merchant looks like 27 Port Line, as to where, a 4 track electrified line limits it a bit presumably the headcode might give a broad clue.

 

[Ressaldar]

The Merchant looks like 27 Port Line, as to where, a 4 track electrified line limits it a bit presumably the headcode might give a broad clue.

Hi Martin,

according to my bible - Waterloo or Nine Elms and Brockenhurst and Bournemouth West via Sway.

regards

Mike

 

[Martin Shaw]

Thanks Mike, if the date of 1960 is accurate then I think no further west than Worting Junc, still a large number of possibilities.
Martin