Prototype Tim Mills' Photos

[oldravendale]

Back to the GWR...

Castle class 5068 Beverston Castle on a down Cheltenham train at Old Oak Common on 8th May 1962. BR Database tells us that this was a Swindon engine at the time, and then the SLS advise it was allocated to Oxford later in May 1962 from where it was withdrawn at the end of September. It went to Cashmore's Great Bridge where it was scrapped in December.


King class 6015 King Richard III on a down Birmingham train at Old Oak Common on 8th May 1962. It was still an Old Oak engine but in June 1962 moved to Stafford Road. It was withdrawn at the end of September. (SLS). It was scrapped at Cox and Danks, Oldbury, in April 1963. (BR Database).



Castle 7002 Devizes Castle on a down Worcester train at Old Oak Common on 8th May 1962. Previously in post #1156 7002 was at Worcester at the end of November 1959 and stayed there until withdrawal in March 1964. (SLS). It was scrapped at Cashmore's Great Bridge in June. (BR Database).



57XX 0-6-0PT 8757 on a down trip freight at Old Oak Common on 8th May 1962. It had been an Old Oak Common engine since 1946 and was withdrawn just four and a bit months after this photo was taken. (SLS). It then went to A King and Sons in Norwich where it was scrapped at the end of January 1964. (Rail UK).



Brian

 

[simond]

lovely detail on the signal! What's happend to the blinder?

 

[Martin Shaw]

I have been able to obtain this copy of a somewhat scarce book on the secondhand market so I am now fully aufait with Castle matters.


5068 Beverston Castle Bath Road 22/6/38, Swindon 6/11/41, Oxford 19/5/62, Wdn 21/9/62. The building which its named after is near Tetbury in Gloucestershire.
6015 King Richard III Old Oak 15/6/28, Stafford Road 4/6/62, Wdn 21/9/62, Sold to Cox & Danks Langley Green 5/4/63.
7002 Devizes Castle Landore 6/6/46, Carmarthen ?/10/56, Landore 12/6/58, Worcester 26/11/59, Wdn 10/3/64.

Regards
Martin

 

[oldravendale]

I'd not noticed the missing blinder, Simon. I guess the back of the signal may have been obscured by the bridge but that wouldn't have been of much help to the signalman in determining whether the lamp was lit or not, would it?

Thanks Martin for further and better information, duly added to the info accompanying these negs.

Seen very recently in posts #2525 and #2530 so I'll not repeat the information here, but this is H16 30520 taking water at Wimbledon lineside on 9th May 1962.






Rebuilt West Country/Battle of Britain 4-6-2 34059 Sit Archibald Sinclair on an up Salisbury train at Wimbledon on 9th May 1962. It was a Salisbury engine being withdrawn in May 1966 and going to Woodham's at Barry. This is probably still undergoing overhaul on the Bluebell unless anyone knows differently.



Merchant Navy 35007 Aberdeen Commonwealth on a down Bournemouth train at Wimbledon on 9th May 1962. This was also a Salisbury engine at the time, moving to Weymouth Radipole in January 1965 and then Nine Elms in April 1967. (SLS). It was withdrawn at the end of Southern steam in July. (SLS). It then went to Buttigieg's at Newport by way of the shed at Salisbury in March 1968 (WHTS) where it was scrapped in April (BR Database).



E4 0-6-2T 32557 on empty stock and light engine at Waterloo on 9th May 1962. Although a Brighton engine by design it had moved to Nine Elms in November 1961 even though it carries a 73B Bricklayers Arms shed plate. It was withdrawn in December 1962. (SLS). It was scrapped at Eastleigh Works by the end of October 1963. (Rail UK).





Brian

 

[76043]

Surprised nobody else has commented on the calfs. Such an interesting picture. I see there is some BR writing on the crate, possibly indicating which type of container they are in? But I can't read it, any chance it can be zoomed in?

I imagine they might have been on their way or from Smithfield via the widened lines???
Tony

 

[daifly]

Here you are.


Dave

 

[hrmspaul]

Surprised nobody else has commented on the calfs. Such an interesting picture. I see there is some BR writing on the crate, possibly indicating which type of container they are in? But I can't read it, any chance it can be zoomed in?

I imagine they might have been on their way or from Smithfield via the widened lines???
Tony

As well as BRITISH RAILWAYS the next line is KINGS CROSS the final line isn't readable.

The movement of calves wrapped so they are unable to move was the required way to move them. There was a full BR official booklet on livestock. The box may have been unusual. I remember seeing a single calf similarly wrapped but just sat on a parcels trolley at Derby sometime c 1965-66.

Paul

 

[Dog Star]

Smithfield did not deal in live animals.... at least in later years.

 

[oldravendale]

Thanks, Tony, for your comment, and to Dave for making the enlargement. I, of course, have the benefit of the TIFF original so I've enlarged the area and increased contrast before converting back to jpeg. You can see a little more but I suspect it won't help in identifying a code for the crate.



Thanks too, Paul, for your advice on this one. It seems that shipping calves by passenger train was probably not entirely unusual. Looking at the corner of the crate just behind the young lady I'd say that it was probably wheeled so could be pushed in to the parcels compartment.

Tony and Dogstar. I acknowledge that Smithfield did not deal in livestock. However, I suspect there would have been an abattoir somewhere nearby. I well remember when most small towns had their own abattoir although most of those have now closed in favour of the large, factory type organisations.

For today the WCML and a bit of ECML.

Rebuilt Patriot 45535Sir Herbert Walker KCB on an up Liverpool train at South Kenton Station on 26th April 1962. Details were previously in post #2513. 45535 was an Edge Hill loco and had been since 1954, then went to Carlisle Kingmoor in November 1962 and was withdrawn from there in October 1963. (SLS). It was scrapped by the end of September 1964 at Rigleys, Bulwell Forest. (Rail UK).



Royal Scot 46124 London Scottish on an up parcels on 26th April 1962. Tim describes this as South Kenton Station but I can be more accurate than that. This was taken at Northwick Park, between Kenton and South Kenton. The bridge in the background is where the Met/GCR joint lines from Marylebone/Baker Street to Aylesbury and beyond cross the WCML. There'd usually be a little huddle of train spotters in the corner close to the bridge which benefitted from having a bunker from the pre-war golf course where one could do a bit of cycle-cross, although it hadn't been invented then. The location is etched on my memory as this is where I started train spotting and was a regular haunt until steam finished. Considering the number of locations where our paths crossed it's quite amazing that Tim and I never knew one another until seven years after this photo. Anyway, 46124 had been an Edge Hill loco since 1947, moving to Carlisle Kingmoor in November 1962 where it was condemned a month later. (SLS). It was scrapped at Crewe Works in April 1963.



Now to Kings Cross on 1st May 1962. A2/3 60500 Edward Thompson is on the 6.17pm Peterborough train. It's been in these pages a few times, for example in post #2019. It was a New England loco and was withdrawn in June 1963. (SLS). It was scrapped at Doncaster Works by the beginning of September. The new order in the shape of a Class 24 rumbles away next door.



A1 60135 Madge Wildfire on the 6.12 Leeds train at Wood Green on 1st May 1962. It was a Copley Hill (Leeds) loco at the time and transferred to Ardsley just four days after this photo was taken and was withdrawn from there in November 1962. (SLS). It was cut up at Doncaster Works in May 1963. (BR Database and Rail UK).



Brian

 

[John Duffy]

Madge Wildfire was a character in the Walter Scott novel, Heart of Midlothian.
The Heart of Midlothian being an 18th century prison in Edinburgh.
The Madge Wildfire name was previously carried by North British J Class 4-4-0 (D29) number 244 of 1911.
It became 9244, then 2407. It never received a BR number, being withdrawn in 1947.
The D29's and D30's collectively were known as the "Scott" class.


The naming probably made sense when the engine was at Gateshead as it would be expected on the run to Edinburgh. Im not so sure the connection would be so obvious in Leeds.

John

 

[Martin Shaw]

I 'm not so sure John, Sir Walter Scott's influence on British cultural life was immense. If Leeds knew nothing of Madge Wildfire, I wonder what Swindon made of Quentin Durward, Bride of Lammermoor or Lalla Rookh, all of which names G.J.Churchward bestowed on his magnificent Atlantics. Whatever the regional understanding the names have a resoluteness about them that was sadly lacking when Swindon came to find 330 names for their Hall class. Thread deviation, sorry Brian.

Martin

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

Merchant Navy 35007 Aberdeen Commonwealth on a down Bournemouth train at Wimbledon on 9th May 1962. This was also a Salisbury engine at the time, moving to Weymouth Radipole in January 1965 and then Nine Elms in April 1967. (SLS). It was withdrawn at the end of Southern steam in July. (SLS). It then went to Buttigieg's at Newport by way of the shed at Salisbury in March 1968 (WHTS) where it was scrapped in April (BR Database).

The EMU in the foreground is a 4-SUB. Easily characterised by the high gutter line and the lack of cabside windows. A 4-EPB has cabside windows and cab access was via the guards compartment situated at both ends of the unit.

4-SUB cropped from above.



The next five are cropped from my images to illustrate the 4-SUB/4-EPB front end differences. 4-SUBs and 4-EPBs could not be coupled to each other.

5048 (BR-Bulleid 4-EPB) - high rainstrip, cab side windows, Pullman buffing plate, roller blind headcode box, two MU connections and short gutter over the cab window and guards compartment doors. Charing Cross late 1970s.



5243 (BR-Bulleid 4-EPB) - high rainstrip and a full length gutter at cantrail level. Charing Cross late 1970s.



Preserved Bulleid SR 4-SUB 4732 at Cannon Street open day back in the 1980s (unfortunately spoilt by the almost full yellow end). The 4-SUB has the additional MU connections in the centre, no Pullman buffing plate, squarer cab windows, high roof rainstrip and a stencil headcode box.



A pure BR design 4-EPB 5347 near Petts Wood in the mid to late 1980s - the high roof rainstrip has disappeared with the standard BR roof.



And finally to show the BR-Bulleid 1951 4-EPBs (5124) survived long enough to carry the Network SouthEast logo but no KentLink branding though. (London Bridge mid-1980s).



Apologies for the Southern Region visual 4-SUB/4-EPB identification diversion .

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

E4 0-6-2T 32557 on empty stock and light engine at Waterloo on 9th May 1962. Although a Brighton engine by design it had moved to Nine Elms in November 1961 even though it carries a 73B Bricklayers Arms shed plate. It was withdrawn in December 1962. (SLS). It was scrapped at Eastleigh Works by the end of October 1963. (Rail UK).

The EMU in the background is a SR 4-COR.

 

[oldravendale]

Thanks for yours, John, and 60135 certainly was at Gateshead from new, migrating southwards only later in it's career. Thanks too for the additional info re other "Madge Wildfires". Not a name with which, in my ignorance, I was previously familiar so yours, Martin, is particularly apposite. By now you'll know we love a bit of thread deviation on this one!

Thanks too, Dave, for your treatise on 4-SUBs and 4-EPBs. Previously they all looked the same to me, but that's no longer the case. I'd noted the 4-COR but was incapable of positively identifying it, so thanks for that too.

60513 Dante on the 6.17 pm Peterborough train at Wood Green on 3rd May 1962. I've made a note against this one to draw attention to the three way point in the foreground. The loco looks in far better fettle in this one than when seen previously a year later in post #1970. It was based at New England and withdrawn at the end of April 1963. (SLS). It went back to the place of it's birth, Doncaster, where it was despatched by the beginning of May. (BR Database).

Edit: Since the switch blades are staggered, it's technically a tandem turnout not a 3-way in which the toes of the switch blades would lie together on the same timber.



A3 60059 Tracery on the 6.26 Hull train at Wood Green on 3rd May 1962. It left Doncaster Works in September 1961 with smoke deflectors and at the time of the photo was a Kings Cross engine, being withdrawn from there in December 1962. (SLS). It was scrapped in the same month at Doncaster Works. (BR Database).



A2 60532 Blue Peter on the 6.32 York Parcels at Wood Green on 3rd May 1962. At the time it was allocated to Dundee Tay Bridge so had almost certainly come south for a special although I can't find anything on Six Bells Junction at or around the date of this photo. It was withdrawn in December 1966 and was sold in to preservation in August 1968.

Edit: Loco is 60523, Sun Castle. A2 60523 Sun Castle, a Doncaster engine since January 1960. It moved to it's final shed, New England, in October and was withdrawn in June 1963. (SLS). It went in to Doncaster Works for cutting up at the end of August. (BR Database).



Britannia 70038 Robin Hood on the 6.50 Cleethorpes train at Wood Green on 3rd May 1962. It was an Immingham engine, moving to Carlisle Upperby in December 1963 and then Kingmoor in February 1964 where it was withdrawn in August 1967. (SLS). It was scrapped at J McWilliams at Shettleston in December the same year.



Brian

 

[daifly]

Since the switch blades are staggered, it's technically a tandem turnout not a 3-way in which the toes of the switch blades would lie together on the same timber.
Dave

 

[Martin Shaw]

The signalbox featuring in todays post is Wood Green Tunnel which only signalled down trains, all of the trains pictured are on the down fast, immediately to its right is the down slow and next right is the down siding No 1. The line immediately next to the flyover bridge arch is the down goods and last to the right is the down siding No 2. The box to the south was Wood Green No 3, not certain about northwards, New Southgate possibly. The down home signals are all very tall to be sighted over the flyover, of most interest is the construction of the down goods signal which appears to be a flanged beam bottom half with a tubular post top half. I wonder whether it may have been raised or is an LNER or BR replacement for an earlier signal. As was common in the area facing points on goods lines were equipped with FPLs so that they could be used for passenger working at short notice if necessary.
Martin

 

[76043]

Still plenty of wooden minerals in that Britannia shot.
Thanks for keeping these images coming.
Tony

 

[AJC]

Still plenty of wooden minerals in that Britannia shot.
Thanks for keeping these images coming.
Tony

Only one of the three - the other two are unfitted general merchandise types (the nearest is LNER, the further, probably GWR), though in context perhaps in mineral use as that wasn't unknown.

Adam

 

[Barry37]

Only one of the three - the other two are unfitted general merchandise types (the nearest is LNER, the further, probably GWR), though in context perhaps in mineral use as that wasn't unknown.

Adam

The further one is a later-build (from 1933) GWR unfitted 5 plank open, probably one of O32, O37 or O30. Earlier 5 planks had the wider plank at the top, rather than second plank up like the wagon in the photo.

 

[mickoo]

A pure BR design 4-EPB 5347 near Petts Wood in the mid to late 1980s - the high roof rainstrip has disappeared with the standard BR roof.

View attachment 198439

As have the small quarter light windows above the door opening windows.