Prototype Tim Mills' Photos

oldravendale

Western Thunderer
Stunning bit of work there, Dave. There's absolutely no doubt it's 35 and Phil's info fills in the blanks. For logical reasons I'd guessed it would be one of the last three withdrawn, but not so. Mind you, that dome is a disaster!

And Paul - thank you for the data on the wagon in the background.

That's a pretty good and full set of info.

There will follow a string of photos in Swindon Works Yard. This is "Swindon Works. 19th October 1957." again. It features 6838, Goodmoor Grange, fresh out of works and yet to receive its tender. It came in to works from Ebbw Junction (Newport) and returned there until transfer to Pontypool Road at the beginning of November 1961. It moved to Bristol Barrow Road towards the end of June 1964 and thence to Llanelly a month later. It ended up at Cardiff East Dock from where it was withdrawn in July 1965 (the SLS say to store) but was then reinstated at Worcester in early August 1965 finally being withdrawn on 18th November 1965. It was cut up during February 1966 at Cashmore's (Newport).

img441 TM 6838 Goodmoor Grange Swindon Works 19 Oct 57 - Copyright copy.jpg

Brian
 

oldravendale

Western Thunderer
Before I start this next one I wondered whether there is any additional info about TVR 373 which will help to fill out the basic info in the previous post.

For today we're coming up to date - well, for 1957. Tim's title for this one is "Swindon. 19th October 1957. Newly built 9F." This is worthy of a bit more of an investigation as this loco is shown as to service at New England on 30th September 1957. The loco already looks a bit care worn for new production, so I wonder if it went in to service, was found to be unsatisfactory for some reason and had been returned to Swindon for some remedial work at the time of the photo. However, the SLS advises that it was on loan to Swindon during week ending 28th December 1957 and went new to the Eastern Region on 31st December 1957. The BR Database records advise that it was at Swindon on 8th January 1958, going to New England on 12th April 1957. The Locoshed Book for April/May 1958 confirms the New England allocation and although listed in the November 1957 version no allocation is given - as it was built in the previous September that is, perhaps, a bit surprising. Overall, then, a bit of a minor mystery on which it's probably fruitless to expend any more energy!

Anyway, it went from New England to Langwith Junction in January 1965 from where it was withdrawn the following October and sent to T W Ward (Killamarsh) where it was scrapped in the December.

img442 TM 92178 Swindon 19 Oct 57 Newly Built 9F - Copyright copy.jpg

Brian
 

Ressaldar

Western Thunderer
Hi Brian,

enjoying these photos very much and trust that they will keep us all entertained and on our toes for a long way into the future.

One thing that I have noticed with this one is the spacing of the numerals especially between the 9 & 2 and the 7 & 8, probably due to the rivet/bolt heads but have not noticed it being so great on other locos with similar numbers. It would be great to compare this example with 92176 & 92179.

Keep the photos coming.

Stay safe and well

regards

Mike
 

daifly

Western Thunderer
Before I start this next one I wondered whether there is any additional info about TVR 373 which will help to fill out the basic info in the previous post.
Hi Brian
I have several photos of 373. All but two are taken at Swindon and in almost every case at Swindon (including Tim's) it has a shunter's truck attached. The other two photos show 373 out-of-use at Abercynon on 21Jul57 and the other, 373 stabled next to 390 at Cardiff East Dock on an unspecified day in Aug57 - presumably both in the process of being moved to Swindon.
Dave
 

PhilH

Western Thunderer
Before I start this next one I wondered whether there is any additional info about TVR 373 which will help to fill out the basic info in the previous post.
Brian

The RCTS book mentioned in my previous post gives a withdrawal date for 373 as August 1957, along with 6 other TVR 'A class', these 7 being the last of that class to be withdrawn. The book also states "many had a spell as Swindon Works pilots before being broken up".
 

oldravendale

Western Thunderer
Thanks for the additions, Mike, Dave, Adam and Phil. The stuff about 373 is great because it confirms what we believe we know.

It's gratifying that these continue to be appreciated. I've now scanned, but not post processed, about 1200 negs with probably the same number to come. The variety is amazing. For those interested in this thread it'll clearly last a few years!

Next, another "Swindon. 19th October 1957." It looks to me as though 4907, Broughton Hall, is waiting to go in to works. BR Database has done the business for me, yet again, showing that the loco was shedded at Oxford at the time of the photo, moving to Southall in March 1958, Worcester at the end of November 1959 and finally Hereford in April 1962. The loco was withdrawn at the beginning of August 1963 (SLS say the end of August) before going to Cashmore's (Great Bridge) where it was scrapped during January the following year.

img443 TM 4907 Broughton Hall Swindon 19 Oct 57 - Copyright copy.jpg

Brian
 

Eastsidepilot

Western Thunderer
Overall, then, a bit of a minor mystery on which it's probably fruitless to expend any more energy!


Brian

Brian,
Found this on the Wikipedia page ...........
"The only modification which did deliver any noticeable benefit was the fitting of 92178 with a double blastpipe and chimney during its construction. Following delivery in September 1957, it was subjected to extensive testing, both in the Rugby test plant and on service trains. After the completion of the tests in February 1958, it was decided to fit all 9Fs built subsequently with double blastpipes and chimneys — they were numbers 92183 onwards, as well as 92165–7. The modification was also installed on 92000/1/2/5 and 92006.[16] That allowed the engines to steam slightly more freely and thus generate higher power ranges.[5]"

Col.
 

LarryG

Western Thunderer
Going to Swindon works in October 1957 would almost certainly mean losing its BR lined black livery and gaining green.
 

SimonT

Western Thunderer
92178 According to the RCTS Standards Vol 4, the loco was allocated to New England 9/57, Swindon Testing Plant (O/L) 11/57 and back to New Englan 3/58. No repairs are recorded during this period. Photos in the book show that the smoke deflectors were removed for the tests and that she was road tested in this state with the Swindon dynometer car between Stoke Gifford and Reading in Jan/Feb 58.

4907 According to The Book of the Halls, 4907 works visits at this time were:
Old Oak shops for an unclassified 5/11/55.
Swindon for heavy general 24/5/56.
Wolverhampton Works for a light casual 22/11/57
Oxford shops for a unclassified 13/1/58
Swindon for a heay general 25/6/58

So this visit was minor and unrecorded.
 

oldravendale

Western Thunderer
Hi Col.

I believe that extract from Wiki has probably answered any remaining questions. Many thanks, and duly added to the data for the photo.

Also, Simon, further detail on the 9F and also chapter and verse for the Hall. Thanks for that. In view of your comments I suspect that the Hall may simply have worked to Swindon and will be returning home soon. However, it's clearly in the Works yard rather than the shed with those tenders in the background. Thanks for the additional info.

Two for today, obviously parked behind one another and not the most inspiring of locations (unless you were there at the time!) with not a huge amount of detail on which we can pick up. "Swindon Works. 19th October 1957." and it's a 72XX 2-8-2T with the Castle in the next photo immediately in front. As I've mentioned previously, I'm far from the greatest GWR fan but these 2-8-2 tanks were truly magnificent beasts. This number plate is difficult to read, so I checked "Shed Bash UK" to see what was in works at the time. On 1st September 7206 was in A Shop, - so was 92178 (see post above), described as "new". 7235 and 7251 were in the works yard but there's no indication whether this was pre or post overhaul. (Incidentally, six of the remaining TVR A Class were present, withdrawn in the yard, but not 373, although it was present in February 1958 with RR 35) There were no 72XX present in February 1958. Tim has a photo, yet to come, of 92185 in what I believe is A shop on 19th October so I think we can be pretty certain about the accuracy of his date.

In the absence of any confirmation of the identification of this loco no further info is possible.

img444 TM Swindon Works 19 Oct 57 - Copyright (2) copy.jpg

Again "Swindon Works 19th October 1957" and this is easily identified as Castle 5044 Earl of Dunraven. This was an Old Oak Common loco at the time, then allocated to Swindon for a whole day! on 4th July 1960 before moving to Cardiff Canton on 5th July, to Neath in June 1961, then Cardiff Canton again in early July before withdrawal at the beginning of April 1962. It was something of a rarity at the time, going to Swindon for scrapping which happened in June the same year. Thanks to BR Database again for this info. It doesn't quite match with the SLS dates but the allocations do, as does the date of withdrawal.

There are some questions regarding the dates at works, though. The record shows the loco at Swindon for a Heavy General between 6th January and 14th February 1956, then 28th November to 16th January 1958 for a Heavy Intermediate but it was not officially there on 19th October 1957, and certainly not finished which the photo indicates is the case. Furthermore, on 26th September 1957 there was a boiler change and a tender change, and yet another tender change on 4th October 1958. (These are just snapshots from the available list of dates). I would have expected the record to show the loco in works for the boiler change, but it doesn't appear to have been there! Does anyone have any idea why this should be? Maybe that 26th September boiler change coincides with the date of Tim's photo a few weeks later, so was that a visit which never appeared on the loco's record card?

img446 TM 5044 Swindon Works 19 Oct 57 - Copyright copy.jpg

Brian
 

oldravendale

Western Thunderer
"Swindon. 19th October 1957." again, with newly built 92185 in what I take to be "A Shop". This has clearly been built with a double chimney, so the decision to equip the new builds was clearly a Swindon decision for the locos they were building at the time. Although the loco appears to be complete there was clearly more work to be done, as it didn't enter service until the middle of January 1958 at New England. In June 1963 it moved to Colwick, then back to New England in the November and finally Immingham in January 1964. Withdrawal followed in February 1965 after the scandalously short life of a little over seven years whence the loco went to Drapers (Hull) where it was scrapped in the June.

img445 Swindon 19 Oct 57 Newly Built 92185 - Copyright Copy (2).jpg

Brian
 

oldravendale

Western Thunderer
The last GWR photo for a while, again at "Swindon Works. 19th October 1957." A lovely image of an ED wagon too. The loco is 56XX 0-6-2T 6639, a resident at Swindon shed and possibly used as a works pilot at this time - in fact it had lived at Swindon since the end of 1955. It moved from Swindon to either Cardiff Canton or Radyr - BR Database and the SLS differ on that point - in early November 1960, then to Llantrisant at the end of March 1961 followed by Leamington where it had two allocation dates, the end of June 1963 and then the following July, a point on which BR Database and the SLS agree, so why would it be allocated to the same place twice? It was withdrawn from Leamington in October the same year and went to Cohens (Morriston) where it was scrapped in May 1964.

As for the wagon, any advice and details will be appreciated.

img447 TM Swindon Works 19 Oct 57 - Copyright copy.jpg

Brian
 

oldravendale

Western Thunderer
Well, I promised some "different" stuff from Tim now and again. For those locked in to the railways of England, Scotland and Wales please bear with us for a while as, although I know absolutely nothing about the railways of Ireland (except the Tralee & Dingle) Tim spent a few phases of his life in Northern Ireland and as his photos go back as far as 1956 predate the UTA. I suggest if these are not your bag just keep a watching brief as we'll be back in North East England very soon. I've found these images fascinating and they've sent me off on new lines of research sometimes, as with this first image, entirely fruitless.

This is "Belfast. Great Victoria Street. 1956." The loco on the left is not No 8 as it appears but No 81, the "1" being clearly visible on blowing the image up a bit. I can find nothing on line about a GNR(I) loco with this number. Initially I thought it was probably the same class as the loco next door, one of the tank engines although we don't know the number. However closer examination shows this is not the same class and I'll guess at it being a 4-4-0.

If there's anyone in our community who can help with providing more details I'll be very grateful. (I suspect there will be quite a few more of these photos which will fall in to the "what is this?" category!)

img448 TM Belfast Gt Victoria St 1956 - Copyright copy Final.jpg

The next one is much more easily identified. Again it's "Belfast. Great Victoria Street. 1956." but of the nameplate for Class S 4-4-0 No 170, Errigal with the GNR(I) badge or totem on the splasher side. This class was introduced around 1913 but I have no data on allocations or withdrawal dates.

img449 TM Belfast Gt Victoria St 1956 - Copyright copy Final.jpg

For the sake of completeness I've included this one in the same post. Tim has titled this "S Class 4-4-0. GNRI. 1956." I suspect it might be the tender for "Errigal" above, and it carries the GNR totem.

img454 TM S Class 4-4-0 GNRI 1956 - Copyright copy Final.jpg

Brian
 

SimonT

Western Thunderer
According to the few pages of the Loco Register that I was kindly given, 6639 was mostly at Swindon in the period Brian lists. The following moves are listed:
11May60 Wolverhampton
15Jun60 Swindon
31Oct60 Radyr
2Feb61 Llantrisant
14Oct61 Aberdare
11Nov61 Works.

Simon
 

Martin Shaw

Western Thunderer
81 was an NCC class U2 built at York Rd works in Dec 1925 and named Carrickfergus Castle. The class had 18 locomotives built at Derby, NBL Glasgow, and York Rd. The Belfast built ones comprised 3 new including 81 and 8 rebuilds from earlier machines. They were numerically the largest class of NCC engines and handled much of the top link workings to Larne and Portrush. They were mainly based in Belfast although 81 was at Coleraine shed for some time. It was withdrawn in August 1957. A sister, no74 Dunluce Castle built in Glasgow, is preserved at Cultra. In some ways they were not dissimilar to a LMS 2P, hardly surprising given the ownership of the NCC.
Regards
Martin
 

Overseer

Western Thunderer
I beg to differ. NCC 81 had a drumhead smokebox so looks different. The photo looks like a GNR UG class, 81 ended up with CIE as 81N. The UG class were 0-6-0 tender locos with 5' 1" wheels, ten were built by Beyer Peacock between 1937 and 1948.

Edit: I think the loco on the right is a T1 or T2 4-4-2 tank. There seems to be a '4' on the buffer beam, probably it is number 4, which became UTA 4X. The UG and T1/T2 classes had lots of common components including boilers hence the similarity in front end look.
 
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Martin Shaw

Western Thunderer
Hangs head in shame, how did I get that so wrong, Overseer is quite correct although 1956 seems early to have its CIE number. There was me thinking how clever I had been as well. I would also agree re the loco on the right. Going to bed.
Martin
 
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