Prototype Tim Mills' Photos

[Tim Humphreys ex Mudhen]

It also has a different pattern of burning/corrosion around the smokebox door hinge. All very fascinating,

all the best
Tim

 

[oldravendale]

Here's the effort for today. Tim's description is "Braintree Station 1955". This is clearly a different class to the one in post #73 above and interrogating the smokebox plate looks like 67222 but as has been the norm for these photos it's quite indistinct and liable to misinterpretation. However, 67222 is just about possible. It was withdrawn in August 1955 from Bury St Edmunds.

One reason I think this is possible is that the loco appears to be on a freight working, although it's equally possible that it's just shunting. However, if on a freight working it could be on its way to Bury or similar.

Comments as always, please!



Brian

 

[Martin Shaw]

Beyond that it is an F6 and the smokebox plate certainly looks like 67222, I'd put it down as a probable. A sentence on the class in RCTS Vol 7 says "towards the end of their life a few returned to the Stratford district for duties on the Braintree branch and North Woolwich to Palace Gates services", which contradicts my thoughts in post #70. It would seem that they were regularly in use at Braintree in the early 50s.Absolutely smashing pic though, notice that the signal post half way up has what are presumably cast numbers on it as identification. I know the NER were fond of this practice, first time I've ever been aware that the GE did similar.

This series of posts are having a bad influence, moons ago I posted a pic of an F4 model,
that I was considering reworking as I had a set of fine scale wheels for it. In the end it needed far too much work to justify and the concensus at the time was start with Jim's kit so I sold it for half the price of a Connossieur kit. I have a set of wheels which would suit any of the F4/5/6 classes, just need the kit, I must resist, repeat as necessary.

I'm not in any doubt that this is a major undertaking by Brian, it has rather caught my fancy as is perhaps obvious, but please have a metaphorical pat on the back for sharing it all, sorry about the thread drift.
Martin

 

[oldravendale]

Thank you Martin. You re-enforce my supposition, because it's little more than that, about the identification of the loco. That's a very useful reference to add to the notes. I hope that the interest continues and that it'll build up in to a considerable data base.

Also, to attack these photos and try to improve them is a delight and not a chore, although some of them present a considerable challenge. They are far from all GER as well, and include Scotland as well as BR (M), BR (GWR), quite a considerable number of BR (ER), not surprising in view of Tim's abode in Hornsey, and even a few BR (SR). Unexpectedly there are a very few from Ireland which Tim has asked me to digitise as he intends to send the negs to the RPSI for safe keeping when my work is done. Hopefully plenty to keep us all entertained for a few months.

At first sight that looks a nice model of an F4, in need of only a little improvement, but detailed examination suggests that you probably made the right decision.

Brian

 

[Peter Insole]

Here is an absolutely, drop dead gorgeous image taken at Maldon in 1938 !

It is published elsewhere, although I cannot remember the origin, but hopefully can show it for research purposes on here?!



I am enjoying this thread too Brian.

Pete.

 

[Martin Shaw]

Peter
A hundred times yes, and fascinating since it shows an F4 in near original condition, small westo pump on the tank front, air brake only, four column cased safety valve. It is late in 38 for the condensing gear was removed in September of that year.

Brian
Any chance of a Scottish subject, just for me you understand.
Martin

 

[Peter Insole]

What I forgot to point out in the above post was the amount of oil emulsion spread around the Westie on the front of an otherwise quite well cleaned tank?!

There hardly seems any point of having the disc displayed on the smokebox lamp iron, and certainly makes a mockery of the rule that lamps should always be white, considering that they were also regularly to be seen in equally filthy condition?!

Pete.

 

[oldravendale]

Lovely stuff, Pete. What first strikes one is how clean the loco is compared with the sorry examples I've been putting up and are still to come. That headcode disc is surely wrong, being black, or is this a GER thing? If modelled like that one would probably ask the question. I'd not noticed that oil emulsion around the Westinghouse cylinder on other shots either, but I'll look out for it now. Delighted that you are enjoying these.

Martin. OK as you've twisted my arm, but completely out of sequence. I need to talk to Tim about the series from which this comes as I have no date information but I suspect it's around 1960. I know it's 55189 at Carstairs, but that's all. More in the same vein to come but a bit later.

Now known to be 14th September 1961. Allocated to Carstairs in September 1960 and withdrawn at the end of December 1962. (SLS). It is in preservation at the Bo'ness and Kinneil Railway - see 55189 (CR 419, LMS 15189 & BR 55189)



Brian

 

[Tim Humphreys ex Mudhen]

What I forgot to point out in the above post was the amount of oil emulsion spread around the Westie on the front of an otherwise quite well cleaned tank?!

There hardly seems any point of having the disc displayed on the smokebox lamp iron, and certainly makes a mockery of the rule that lamps should always be white, considering that they were also regularly to be seen in equally filthy condition?!

Pete.

I wonder if it is a white disc that has been reversed whist it was running tender first?
Tim

 

[Eastsidepilot]

I wonder if it is a white disc that has been reversed whist it was running tender first?
Tim

I think your right Tim, if you look closely the disc is on backwards as you can see the lamp bracket and the loco is about to be uncoupled, if not already, to run round as it is facing the buffer stops, which by the way are a little further on than you'd imagine, the track continued on for some distance here to allow access to the turntable ( and I doubt they bothered turning a tank loco), behind the photographer and also a private siding.

Explore georeferenced maps - Map images - National Library of Scotland

Col.

 

[Eastsidepilot]

I know it's 55189 at Carstairs, but that's all. More in the same vein to come but a bit later.

View attachment 131884

Brian

Happily this loco was saved for preservation 55189 (CR 419, LMS 15189 & BR 55189)

Nice tubular bracket signal and note the brick wall has been extended in height by building straight up on top of the original coping stones, I wonder how many modellers would re-create that !

Col.

 

[oldravendale]

Happily this loco was saved for preservation 55189 (CR 419, LMS 15189 & BR 55189)

Col.

Why d'you think I chose it?

B

 

[Martin Shaw]

Its ma wee pug, hurrah. Good choice Brian. As to date 55189 was allocated to Polmadie until at least 31/7/60 and presumably was moved when the southside electrification was imminent and the Cathcart Circle steam hauled trains were in the hands of Fairburn and BR 2-6-4 tanks. I have a note it was at Carstairs by 24/8/61 and was withdrawn in Dec 62, so probably a max two year span. It had the ugly stovepipe no later than 1955 and fortunately when the SRPS bought it a change for a proper lum was sorted, nearly sixty years on the middle bit has had to be renewed again. It seems a bit weird to be looking at a picture nearly as old as me of an engine I have driven regularly, in which connection I have reached a conclusion that locomotive engineers rarely drove their own engines, the reverser in back gear is totally in the way and the blower control as designed by Lambie as the finesse of a sledgehammer. This seems odd as McIntosh originated on the running side of things. Oiling inside is best done by v small people as well. It would seem that tradition was foremost at St Rollox which of course did for it in the LMS scheme of things, they might have held their own against Crewe and Derby, maybe, but I can't envisage Stanier putting up with the rather old fashioned thinking in Springburn.

I realise this is out of kilter but thanks for indulging me.
Best wishes
Martin

 

[oldravendale]

This is a less good one, but included as I'm working through all of these negs. This is "Braintree. Bishops Stortford Freight. 1956." Loco number is indecipherable and I don't recognise the class - but I'm sure others will.



Brian

 

[AJC]

The one thing I can help with is the loco class - it's a J39. The one thing remotely in focus is the GER ground signal...

Adam

 

[oldravendale]

Thank you Adam.

B

 

[Martin Shaw]

Hmm, a J39 on a goods at Braintree seems unlikely in view of previous discussions, although it obviously is. What I can't make out in the gloom is a front brake pipe, either vacuum or air, none of the class were unequipped for train braking although there were some variations, air and vacuum ejector, steam and vacuum ejector, and vacuum only. What does appear to be there is an AWS head but again it's a tad dismal under the buffer plank so can't be sure. It's plain to see that it's a Stratford engine, the accumulated dirt rather marks it out, and with a small GS tender the class total of 289 can be reduced but I'm not going any further with id beyond that 64767 was noted on Colchester shed in March 56. Even though it's not the best pic it raises some interesting queries, never to be answered I think.

Regards
Martin

 

[Eastsidepilot]

Brian, Martin,
I've only just found this site, and may be useful in future for research, it shows just the one J39 on shed at Colchester on that particular shed bash, 64767
Shed Bash UK: Colchester and subsheds 1936 - 1959

The photo seems to suggest it does not have vac, steam or air, could it have been demoted to loose coupled goods only ?

Col.

 

[oldravendale]

Thanks Martin. As you say, it raises some interesting questions, particularly if J39s were not normally to be seen at Braintree. I've just gone back to the original scan and adjusted brightness and contrast to see what is present in the original neg in case I've been brutal in my post processing and accidentally painted out the brake pipe but there is none present.

As for location, perhaps the presence of the gas holder - or is it two? - suggests the location of a gasworks which may confirm Braintree.

Useful and thought provoking additional comments.

Brian

Edit - Thanks, Col, for your comment which arrived as I was typing mine. Your comments about the presence or otherwise of buffer beam pipework may be the answer......

 

[Eastsidepilot]

Brian,
Yes it is Braintree's gas works, Explore georeferenced maps - Map images - National Library of Scotland

Col.