simond
Western Thunderer
It’s been a frustrating weekend. I fixed the slidebar without too much bad language, and having fitted the decoder, set about tuning it. This was not successful because there was another “snick”. Once per rev. Not obviously related to crankpin clearances or quartering. Lots of trials got me precisely nowhere, so after a trying day at work I said something that might have sounded like “rowlocks” and took it to bits.
This led to the sacrifice of the brake hangers which are a bit fragile. And the chassis paint has taken a battering too…
I have washed the gearbox in IPA and relubricated it, stripped the axles & their bearings, cleaned them, and reassembled it, and the snick has gone.
Unfortunately we now have too much sideplay, but it runs as smoothly as it should.
So now the rebuild begins.
Bloody thing
This led to the sacrifice of the brake hangers which are a bit fragile. And the chassis paint has taken a battering too…
I have washed the gearbox in IPA and relubricated it, stripped the axles & their bearings, cleaned them, and reassembled it, and the snick has gone.
Unfortunately we now have too much sideplay, but it runs as smoothly as it should.
So now the rebuild begins.
Bloody thing
simond
Western Thunderer
I’ve fitted a couple of sideplay filling washers, given it a few more runs up and down the front siding on PD Loco and it’s now as sweet as it should be.
we have the super-duper new Bambu labs printer at work, I might kick off a dozen brake hangers of each hand with integral shoes in PETG just to see if it will do them justice. I’ve got more resin ones and can print more as needed, but the PETG ones will be far tougher. We have an 0.2mm nozzle for the Bambu, but the 0.4 is fitted at the moment, and production takes priority over the boss’ hobbies…
we have the super-duper new Bambu labs printer at work, I might kick off a dozen brake hangers of each hand with integral shoes in PETG just to see if it will do them justice. I’ve got more resin ones and can print more as needed, but the PETG ones will be far tougher. We have an 0.2mm nozzle for the Bambu, but the 0.4 is fitted at the moment, and production takes priority over the boss’ hobbies…
simond
Western Thunderer
The naughty pannier is programmed, and chuffs, whistles and bangs as one might hope. Still scope for playing with that. It also seems to run well, though there is still an opportunity for it to jam as it did once whilst I was programming it. I can’t find the reason for that, but will look a bit more in due course. I hope the Folkestone club will get their 0 gauge layout up at some point, and it can get a proper running session on digital.
The only other thing I want to sort out before returning it to Chris is painting the brake gear, which is still bare metal. I might also change the brake hangers. See below. It’s a bit cold for spraying but it’s calm and not raining so the primer might be applied today.
whilst I've been playing with the Pannier, I’ve done a bit on Tony’s Manor, and rewheeled his 14/48xx. I’ve also been moving, glacially slowly, forwards with the N6 coal wagons, which is a project with Nick @magmouse. You’ll see the fruits of my recent labours below, the two unpainted bodies at the top. These were the first two printed flat & level, but without floors. This gives prints that are much better than the seven bodies below, which were printed with integral floors but on an angle end to end, and side to side. The floors are laser cut Trotec, though I guess ply would also work.
They were printed several months ago, and have decorated my layout since, so subject only to indoor conditions, and out of direct sun, but in free air, not enclosed. As you can see, they have warped, and the long sides have bowed in. Two of them are not bad, indeed, probably good enough, interestingly, one painted, and one not. There is, as far as I recall, no difference in the processing or post processing, and they’ve all been in the same place. Inconsistency is never helpful…. And it would be galling to print bodies, fit running gear, paint, letter, etc, and six months later, decide they were fit only for the bin.
I have since amended my print settings to double the exposure time per layer (currently 6s using FNG at 50 micron) and I might go down to 30. Hopefully, this will result in less tendency to warp over time. It’s clear that not printing the floor is a very good step forwards. The results the Scottish wagon project guys are getting are encouraging. Maybe I should try the translucent green resin in place of FNG.
another wagon is printing as I type, I’ve been looking at suspension, and have not yet concluded - I don’t like the Ambis etches, though they do work, the one wagon with buffers & couplings below has Ambis W irons and runs well, but is sitting a couple of mm too high, so I’ll have to look at that. I can see it being transferred, weathered, and loaded, to stop further bowing of the sides, and put into service!
I'm tempted to do my own etches for W irons and brake levers & guards. The actual mechanism prints pretty well, so there seems little benefit in doing anything else. But 3DP levers & guards seem very fragile.
I really must finish this wagon. But early efforts at 3DP Brake gear. The newer prints are better.
Talking of brake gear, these are loco brake hangers and shoes produced on our new Bambu printer at work. The green parts were printed using an 0.4 nozzle and are pretty good, but the surface of the levers, particularly the screws and plate to lock the shoe pin, is a bit indistinct.
the black parts on the right were printed using the 0.2mm nozzle, with support material. This massively increases the print time, and is a complete PITA to remove, as it is not water soluble. The resolution is good, but water soluble support is definitely required. It takes 10 minutes to get to the cleaned pair that I have photographed, and there’s still traces of support visible.
I have some of the same levers printing on the resin printer at the moment, I’ll decide which is best when they’re done. The Bambu prints are super tough, the resin ones are clearly brittle.
Right, pannier brakes.
The only other thing I want to sort out before returning it to Chris is painting the brake gear, which is still bare metal. I might also change the brake hangers. See below. It’s a bit cold for spraying but it’s calm and not raining so the primer might be applied today.
whilst I've been playing with the Pannier, I’ve done a bit on Tony’s Manor, and rewheeled his 14/48xx. I’ve also been moving, glacially slowly, forwards with the N6 coal wagons, which is a project with Nick @magmouse. You’ll see the fruits of my recent labours below, the two unpainted bodies at the top. These were the first two printed flat & level, but without floors. This gives prints that are much better than the seven bodies below, which were printed with integral floors but on an angle end to end, and side to side. The floors are laser cut Trotec, though I guess ply would also work.
They were printed several months ago, and have decorated my layout since, so subject only to indoor conditions, and out of direct sun, but in free air, not enclosed. As you can see, they have warped, and the long sides have bowed in. Two of them are not bad, indeed, probably good enough, interestingly, one painted, and one not. There is, as far as I recall, no difference in the processing or post processing, and they’ve all been in the same place. Inconsistency is never helpful…. And it would be galling to print bodies, fit running gear, paint, letter, etc, and six months later, decide they were fit only for the bin.
I have since amended my print settings to double the exposure time per layer (currently 6s using FNG at 50 micron) and I might go down to 30. Hopefully, this will result in less tendency to warp over time. It’s clear that not printing the floor is a very good step forwards. The results the Scottish wagon project guys are getting are encouraging. Maybe I should try the translucent green resin in place of FNG.
another wagon is printing as I type, I’ve been looking at suspension, and have not yet concluded - I don’t like the Ambis etches, though they do work, the one wagon with buffers & couplings below has Ambis W irons and runs well, but is sitting a couple of mm too high, so I’ll have to look at that. I can see it being transferred, weathered, and loaded, to stop further bowing of the sides, and put into service!
I'm tempted to do my own etches for W irons and brake levers & guards. The actual mechanism prints pretty well, so there seems little benefit in doing anything else. But 3DP levers & guards seem very fragile.
I really must finish this wagon. But early efforts at 3DP Brake gear. The newer prints are better.
Talking of brake gear, these are loco brake hangers and shoes produced on our new Bambu printer at work. The green parts were printed using an 0.4 nozzle and are pretty good, but the surface of the levers, particularly the screws and plate to lock the shoe pin, is a bit indistinct.
the black parts on the right were printed using the 0.2mm nozzle, with support material. This massively increases the print time, and is a complete PITA to remove, as it is not water soluble. The resolution is good, but water soluble support is definitely required. It takes 10 minutes to get to the cleaned pair that I have photographed, and there’s still traces of support visible.
I have some of the same levers printing on the resin printer at the moment, I’ll decide which is best when they’re done. The Bambu prints are super tough, the resin ones are clearly brittle.
Right, pannier brakes.
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magmouse
Western Thunderer
Great to see progress on so many fronts, Simon.
Interesting that the N6 prints without the floor are relatively stable - a useful discovery. At least the N6 has a wooden floor, though I suppose if one wanted to do a later type with iron floor (needing rivet detail) it could be printed separately, perhaps as a thin layer with a metal plate for stiffness.
With the brake hangers, how did you do the skirts? Did you draw them yourself, or use the function in Bambu Studio? I wonder if a skirt design with a row of holes adjacent to the brake hanger would be easier to remove, while still giving good bed adhesion. As you say, the material is tough, so 1mm x 0.3mm connectors between hanger and skirt should be enough to do what’s needed, and would be easy to cut through and clean up.
Nick.
Interesting that the N6 prints without the floor are relatively stable - a useful discovery. At least the N6 has a wooden floor, though I suppose if one wanted to do a later type with iron floor (needing rivet detail) it could be printed separately, perhaps as a thin layer with a metal plate for stiffness.
With the brake hangers, how did you do the skirts? Did you draw them yourself, or use the function in Bambu Studio? I wonder if a skirt design with a row of holes adjacent to the brake hanger would be easier to remove, while still giving good bed adhesion. As you say, the material is tough, so 1mm x 0.3mm connectors between hanger and skirt should be enough to do what’s needed, and would be easy to cut through and clean up.
Nick.
simond
Western Thunderer
the Midland / LMS wagon was purchased very reasonably at the Folkestone show a year ago, it’s a JPL whitemetal kit, and as my layout is set just after grouping, I thought MR livery might have survived. It has single shoe, both sides independent, brakes, and I guess would have been condemned by 1930 or a bit earlier. Thanks to Andrew Green for the transfers,which are Slaters waterslide. Weathering to be added.
The N6 coal wagon is yet another prototype for my project along with long suffering Nick @magmouse. I’m reasonably confident that the CAD is good and the wagon 3D printing process is also reliable. The issue that is bugging me is that the Ambis W irons & suspension just don’t do it for me. I’m now in the process of developing my own etch for these and also for any RCH wagons I may require. See below. I’m aiming to include W irons, an etched hidden piece to connect the axle bearing to a guitar string spring, and brake levers and guards. I’m pretty happy to print the rest, including one piece body & chassis, brakes, springs & axleboxes. Metalwork-wise I have home made buffers & modified Premier couplings, plus a set of Peco or Slaters wheels & bearings. Paint & transfers to follow.
The pair of bolsters are built from laser cut ply kindly supplied by @John Duffy when I designed and printed some buffet stocks for his project, I’ve recently printed brakes (again, either side, independent) for them, and they require levers & guards, and transfers & numbers to complete.
The rake of Mica wagons is a collection of new and second-hand Parkside kit builds, a WEP kit and some of my own. I’m not there yet. My ideas have some merit, but the results of my home-builds are not yet as good as a Parkside kit, so work still to do. Anyway, this is about a third of a decent meat train…
I should mention the infamous naughty pannier. @Pencarrow will be pleased to hear that it’s done. Perhaps not as pleased as I am to say it! This saga began on post 810, October 23. The Midland wagon a day or so later.
It’s now in regular running in turns up and down the front siding at Porth Dinllaen, and, all being well, will get a thorough running in session at Hawksdown, when the FHMRS set up the track for an open day, hopefully before Christmas. I still need to do a bit of sound adjustment, but it’s close.
So it’s wagons for the next few days…
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Pencarrow
Western Thunderer
Simon, thank you so very much for persevering with the Naughty Pannier. I really couldn't have done it without your fantastic help. I've said it before, but the fact that it's been "challenging" to someone with your skills and kit really does underline I didn't stand a chance completing it to the fidelity you have. I'm very much in you debt and owe you a building!
simond
Western Thunderer
thanks Chris,
I just hope it continues to run as sweetly as it currently does. I guess we are a bit in uncharted territory with the 3DP crossheads etc, but fingers crossed, they'll be fine.
My pal, Tony, tells me that Folkestone are likely to have an 0 gauge running day between now and Christmas so I'll take it along, as well as my DCC kit, and we'll give it a run or two. The sound needs adjustment still, the chuffs are loud enough but other noises are far too loud, and the brake squeal happens just after it's stopped. I'll try to get a reasonable mix and fix the silly squeal. It tootles up and down PD loco very happily with a wagon or four.
Then we'll have to get it up to you - I can send it insured via work, so probably will do that, unless you're heading to France anytime soon by Eurotunnel! I'll drop you a note by pm in the not-too-distant future.
speak soon
Simon
simond
Western Thunderer
Hi Nick,
I'm pretty confident that the adjustments to both design, and process, are yielding fruit in terms of 3DP wagons. I've put one of the previous prototypes together with the Ambis suspension but I'm not really happy with it - I used it also for the little single bolsters from @John Duffy. I find them fiddly to fit and a bit sticky, so I'm looking at my own etch. The body, and the Trotec floor, are fine. I will try lasering a thin plywood floor as well, just to have some variety.
I had hoped that I could use the Trotec to make W irons and to that effect, I have added rectangular blocks on the inside of the sole bars - the W iron locates on them, and the (horse hook?) hole through the solebar remains a hole! The Trotec does work but the edges are not ideal for use as a bearing surface and it feels a bit wobbly, it's a bit thick too, it is 0.8 so nearly an inch and a half! It might be fine, but I think that 0.3mm etch NS will be a better bet - and scale thickness too. Not planning to put the joggle in the W irons, it is easy to put the extra half inch on the inside of the solebar.
I decided to dig out the Mica project too. The solebars I had printed way back when I first got the printer are all sorts of strange shapes, and some have cracked. This project started in Feb 23, (post #544) and kind of stuttered to a halt as things did not work as I hoped they would. I felt it was a good time to take stock, as I was lucky enough to acquire a couple of Parkside wagons at Stafford and they needed some TLC.
Plan was ;-
Slaters (or Peco) wheels and bearings
Premier 3 links (actually screw)
Turned buffers
Printed body "artwork" over a laser-cut MDF body former, with 3DP details
3DP chassis
What works?
- The commercial stuff is ok, of course.
- The turned buffers are easy, we make them at work, 50 or so at a time, 10mm steel bar and a very sophisticated CNC lathe...
- I use a 3DP collar superglued to the back of the buffer tail, a piece of piano wire springs the buffer, and retains the coupling hook, Peco style.
- The MDF body formers are ok, but the formed card roof was not great - it came out rigid and curved, but it was very difficult to cut the edges to be clean and straight, either before or after forming. I'm sure it can be done, but I chose to 3DP the roof instead. There are four on the printer as I type, but having set the printer to 9s per layer, and the layers to 30 micron, it has a print time of 33 hours. So after work on Monday I'll know whether they worked...
- The card can be printed ok, but I have not yet got the laser "etch" set up to put the plank lines in. I expect it'll work, I have a pal with a far better laser than mine, so if I can't...
- The printed solebars looked great, but curled up horribly, which may be the way I printed them two years back, or may be the way they are designed. I think a bit of a redesign will sort that, based on my experience with the N6 wagons.
- The printed W-irons on an inner chassis were sort-of ok, but the axlebox supports I had printed were a non-starter, far too brittle, and impossible to fix
ifwhen you broke one. - The brake cylinders are great
- The brake hangers, shoes cam and pushrods are also perfectly fine. Need to remember to put holes in teh mounting plate for the (wire) safety loops.
- Brake levers and guards are either impossibly fragile or clumsy. They need to be metal too.
- Axleboxes are 3DP and they're nice.
- Springs - I modelled them with scale thickness leaves, and fine grooves between but the individual leaves do not show - I think I will have make them more obvious, but they print fine. There is a question, I guess, about whether to have a slotted axlebox fixed to the dummy spring so the wheel bearing moves within it to allow suspension, or to allow the axlebox to move with the axle, and live with needing some gap between dummy spring and axlebox. I've currently gone with the latter route, but the jury's out.
I should have glued the door locking beams onto the card-bodied wagon, and given it a coat of matt varnish, it will look a bit better, I think.
I guess this leads me to the "it's a hybrid" which is sensible, after all, the real things were made from different materials in different components, so it's logical that the model should be too. I recall @adrian saying something about this a couple of years back.
Returning to the loco brake hangers, the ones with support are simply not worth the fight - they printed without, in green (yep, that was a pain) and the results were good - I have no idea why the latter set were so much more hassle. The only difference was using the smaller (0.2) nozzle to try to get a bit more detail of the shoe pin retainer plate.
atb
Simon
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Giles
Western Thunderer
I've used 3D crossheads on a couple of locos (admittedly single bar type) in 7mm narrow gauge and 16mm narrow gauge, and not had any problems at all. Certainly with the bigger one I took the precaution of bushing the little end with a slice of tube, but that was all....
simond
Western Thunderer
Meanwhile, back at the keyboard
and Micas are progressing.
These two are second-hand Parkside kits, one of which was missing many of the detail parts. It was relatively easy to 3DP the majority of them, though the roof hatches were simply cut from thick PK.
I suspect the 3DP end steps are not secure, and need a peg of some sort to locate them better. Easy to do, probably Wednesday evening, along with a few other bits & pieces.
and Micas are progressing.
These two are second-hand Parkside kits, one of which was missing many of the detail parts. It was relatively easy to 3DP the majority of them, though the roof hatches were simply cut from thick PK.
I suspect the 3DP end steps are not secure, and need a peg of some sort to locate them better. Easy to do, probably Wednesday evening, along with a few other bits & pieces.
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simond
Western Thunderer
End steps with pegs printed, holes drilled, steps fitted. That was easy. Roof repainted on the one that wasn’t already glued on.
I have been slowly working up a fret of etches, but have still a wee way to go.
I’ve been playing with a prototype N6 wagon that I printed a week or so ago. A coat of Vallejo black mixed (about 5:1) with dark grey has made a pleasing difference, but, here’s a question. What colour would the congregation paint the inside? I‘d imagine a patchwork of black (old paint, coal dust) rust, and bright bare-metal scratches. Anyone actually know? Photographic evidence would be very nice!
Annoying blob of epoxy that seeped through on the floor catching the light
. Managed to cut it out with dental scraper, a touch of paint should sort it.About 30g of lead glued in underneath too.
The Midland wagon needs weathering. Interior particularly, but exterior too.
I have been slowly working up a fret of etches, but have still a wee way to go.
I’ve been playing with a prototype N6 wagon that I printed a week or so ago. A coat of Vallejo black mixed (about 5:1) with dark grey has made a pleasing difference, but, here’s a question. What colour would the congregation paint the inside? I‘d imagine a patchwork of black (old paint, coal dust) rust, and bright bare-metal scratches. Anyone actually know? Photographic evidence would be very nice!
Annoying blob of epoxy that seeped through on the floor catching the light
. Managed to cut it out with dental scraper, a touch of paint should sort it.About 30g of lead glued in underneath too.The Midland wagon needs weathering. Interior particularly, but exterior too.
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Osgood
Western Thunderer
I cannot recall the source but here's a decent internals shot of steel minerals on coal duty:
