Prototype Tim Mills' Photos

[oldravendale]

K Class 2-6-0 32353 took over The Sussex Coast Ltd from the E4 and E6 at Pulborough and here are three photos from the train as it left Pulborough for Arundel on 24th June 1962. Edit: Re @Yorkshire Dave Just to add some more this was the Pulborough - Arundel - Arundel Junction - Barnham - Bognor Regis stage of the tour.







Again the Sussex Coast Ltd on 24th June 1962 and suggested by Tim to be on the Cuckoo Line but could be approaching Arundel with 32353 on the front. Edit: Now known to be at Barnham.



Two photos here of The Sussex Coast Ltd on 24th June 1962 and K Class 32353 suggested by Tim as being turned at Eastbourne and it looks as though by the tour participants. However the itinerary suggests that the K never took the train to Eastbourne the route being Pulborough - Arundel - Barnham - Bognor Regis and then, from Bognor back to Barnham - Worthing Central - Hove - Preston Park - Haywards Heath. I wonder, therefore, whether this is actually Bognor.

Edit. Thanks to Dave @Yorkshire Dave:
These are at Bognor Regis - The SR art-deco signal box in the background centre left of the first photo is the give-away.

At Eastbourne loco shed is on the left of the tracks and the main line tracks curve left when looking north.


The loco had been allocated to Three Bridges since at least 1948 (BR Database) and carries a 75E shed plate which can be determined in some of the later pictures. It was withdrawn at the end of 1962 (SLS) and was scrapped at Eastleigh Works in December 1963. (RO).





Brian

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

Two photos here of The Sussex Coast Ltd on 24th June 1962 and K Class 32353 suggested by Tim as being turned at Eastbourne and it looks as though by the tour participants. However the itinerary suggests that the K never took the train to Eastbourne the route being Pulborough - Arundel - Barnham - Bognor Regis and then, from Bognor back to Barnham - Worthing Central - Hove - Preston Park - Haywards Heath. I wonder, therefore, whether this is actually Bognor. The loco had been allocated to Three Bridges since at least 1948 (BR Database) and carries a 75E shed plate which can be determined in some of the later pictures. It was withdrawn at the end of 1962 (SLS) and was scrapped at Eastleigh Works in December 1963. (RO).

These are at Bognor Regis - The SR art-deco signal box in the background centre left of the first photo is the give-away.

At Eastbourne loco shed is on the left of the tracks and the main line tracks curve left when looking north.

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

Again the Sussex Coast Ltd on 24th June 1962 and suggested by Tim to be on the Cuckoo Line but could be approaching Arundel with 32353 on the front.

This is Barnham facing south west.

The train has just left/passed through the station and is taking the junction south towards Bognor Regis. The lines diverging to the right (or straight ahead if standing on the platform) and out of view head towards Chichester.

The building just seen above the train is a sub-station for the 3rd rail electrification.

This is the junction today from Barnham platform (source Wikimedia Commons).

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

K Class 2-6-0 32353 took over The Sussex Coast Ltd from the E4 and E6 at Pulborough and here are three photos from the train as it left Pulborough for Arundel on 24th June 1962.

Just to add some more this was the Pulborough - Arundel - Arundel Junction - Barnham - Bognor Regis stage of the tour.

 

[oldravendale]

Dave @Yorkshire Dave - thanks for confirming the locations. I've edited the turntable shots to correct them and will add your other comments to the appropriate photo files.

Three more of The Sussex Coast Ltd on 24th June 1962 and 32353 again suggested by Tim to be at Eastbourne although the itinerary suggests that the K never took the train to Eastbourne. Can the station be positively identified? On the basis of Dave @Yorkshire Dave's comments I'm going to settle on Bognor as the location.

Edit: Info from @Yorkshire Dave : In the first of Bognor below there are a couple of what appear to be ex-private owner wagons on the left and the electric unit at the back of the platform on the right of the train is likely to be a 2-NOL (as these were built for the Sussex Coast services) or could be a 2-BIL.

Further edit from Brian W. The EMU at Bognor appears to be a 2-Bil . The last NOL's were withdrawn in August 1959



Edit: Further info on this shot from @Yorkshire Dave :
And in the second one of Bognor the electric unit in the background is a 4-COR.

Edit - After a bit more research it is more likely to be a 6-PAN, 6-CIT or 6-PUL which operated from Victoria or London Bridge to Bognor.





Tim advises that this view and the next are from the train on the Cuckoo Line but I question whether this could be approaching Arundel (unlikely as the sequence of negative numbers confirms this to be after the Bognor stop) or perhaps Eastbourne (equally unlikely as the K didn't go to Eastbourne.) The second picture below suggests the loco to be the K Class 2-6-0, in which case it’s 32353 so I’m guessing that the first photo has the same loco but it could be T9 120 as the K didn’t work the train to Eastbourne except that this again doesn't fit the sequence of negative numbers. To repeat what we know from the itinerary: 32353 worked the train from Pulborough to Bognor Regis via Arundel and Barnham and then Bognor Regis to Haywards Heath via Barnham, Worthing Central, Hove and Preston Park.

For model purposes that cattle loading dock on the right of the first of this pair of photos may be useful.

Edit: @Yorkshire Dave advises:
The first photo is Haywards Heath looking south with T9 120 at the head of the train.

I would place the second photo between Keymer Junction and Lewes, and say we are approaching Lewes with Lewes Castle on the hill in the background.

We will know when we've reached the Cuckoo Line as it was unelectrified.





Brian

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

Three more of The Sussex Coast Ltd on 24th June 1962 and 32353 again suggested by Tim to be at Eastbourne although the itinerary suggests that the K never took the train to Eastbourne. Can the station be positively identified? On the basis of Dave @Yorkshire Dave's comments I'm going to settle on Bognor as the location.

Definitely Bognor Regis - The B of Bognor is visible on the nameboard in the second photo .

 

[oldravendale]

I have to accept that you are correct. I thought it may have been the "B" in Beastbourne but as that doesn't exist I agree with you. (Could've been the "B" in Barnham except it doesn't look anything like Barnham) One would really not believe that I study all these photos for clues before I post them, would you?

Many thanks again, Dave.

Brian

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

Tim advises that this view and the next are from the train on the Cuckoo Line but I question whether this could be approaching Arundel (unlikely as the sequence of negative numbers confirms this to be after the Bognor stop) or perhaps Eastbourne (equally unlikely as the K didn't go to Eastbourne.) The second picture below suggests the loco to be the K Class 2-6-0, in which case it’s 32353 so I’m guessing that the first photo has the same loco but it could be T9 120 as the K didn’t work the train to Eastbourne except that this again doesn't fit the sequence of negative numbers. To repeat what we know from the itinerary: 32353 worked the train from Pulborough to Bognor Regis via Arundel and Barnham and then Bognor Regis to Haywards Heath via Barnham, Worthing Central, Hove and Preston Park.

For model purposes that cattle loading dock on the right of the first of this pair of photos may be useful.

The first photo is Haywards Heath looking south with T9 120 at the head of the train.

I would place the second photo between Keymer Junction and Lewes, and say we are approaching Lewes with Lewes Castle on the hill in the background.

We will know when we've reached the Cuckoo Line as it was unelectrified.

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

One would really not believe that I study all these photos for clues before I post them, would you?

To be fair 90% of the viewers will be looking at the locomotive whereas the remaining 10% (including me) are looking at what's in the background.

In the first of Bognor below there are a couple of what appear to be ex-private owner wagons on the left and the electric unit at the back of the platform on the right of the train is likely to be a 2-NOL (as these were built for the Sussex Coast services) or could be a 2-BIL..

And in the second one of Bognor the electric unit in the background is a 4-COR.

Edit - After a bit more research it is more likely to be a 6-PAN, 6-CIT or 6-PUL which operated from Victoria or London Bridge to Bognor.

 

[oldravendale]

I remain in your debt, Dave @Yorkshire Dave . Your descriptions fit the flow of these negatives well and enhance the information which is regrettably rather unreliable. I'll Edit these images on the commentaries accordingly where I can, otherwise I'll attach the additional data to the corresponding picture file.

Two views from the Sussex Coast Limited of 24th June 1962 with M7 30055 piloting T9 (30)120 as the train engine. This must be some time after Haywards Heath as seen in the sequence above but before Horam (see below).

Edit: Additional from @Yorkshire Dave :
These two are taken between Polegate and Horam after the train had reversed at Eastbourne. It's a pity we cannot read the milepost in the second photo taken a bit further around the curve then the first one (there are some trees which are in both photos).

However the milepost does provide a clue. After checking and plotting the still remaining mileposts on the Cuckoo Line Trail** I think this milepost 25½ between Hellingley and Horam (ignore what you see in the photo as at first glance it looks like 97 and there's no milepost with this milage along the Cuckoo Line).

** On the Geograph website there are a number pf photographs of the remaining LBSCR/SR mileposts left on the Cuckoo Line Trail each with a grid reference and location map. It was a case of identifying these on the 1:10,000/1:10,560 1949-73 series map, comparing the topographical features and boundaries.





The location of this photo is not confirmed in Tim's notes but based on the following shots I believe it to be Horam with the M7 and T9. The M7 is 30055 which was a Three Bridges engine in June 1962 having been allocated there in November 1959. It went to Guildford in July 1962 and Tunbridge Wells West in January 1963 where it was withdrawn in September the same year. (SLS). The SLS record advises the loco to have been transferred to Three Bridges immediately after withdrawal but WHTS advises it was seen in store at Tunbridge Wells West on 13th October 1963 so I believe the SLS record to be erroneous. The Railway Observer advise the loco was cut up at Eastleigh Works on 15th February 1964.



Still at Horam and two photos with the M7 and T9 on the train and Oxted DEMU 1305 behind. For more information on this unit see
BR(S) Oxted DEMU 1305 ‘Brighton Royal Pavilion’ - The Bluebell Railway in Sussex

Edit: Additional info from @Yorkshire Dave :

The 3D (later class 207) Diesel Electric Multiple Units (DEMU) were introduced in 1962 for the Uckfield and Oxted lines so we are seeing it here just recently introduced into service - I suspect with the commencement of the summer timetable in June. Having checked a timetable this train will be the 18.32 (6.32 pm) to Eastbourne - based on the The Railtour Files The Sussex Coast Limited was due at Horam at 18.27 (6.27 pm) but arrived 4 minutes late. Probably delaying the departure of the Eastbourne train so nothing new there.





Brian

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

Now we're on the Cuckoo Line and all three taken at the station are at Horam.

The 3D (later class 207) Diesel Electric Multiple Units (DEMU) were introduced in 1962 for the Uckfield and Oxted lines so we are seeing it here just recently introduced into service - I suspect with the commencement of the summer timetable in June. Having checked a timetable this train will be the 18.32 (6.32 pm) to Eastbourne - based on the LCGB itinerary The Sussex Coast Limited was due at Horam at 18.27 (6.27 pm) but arrived 4 minutes late. Probably delaying the departure of the Eastbourne train so nothing new there.

Having looked at the LCGB 'The Sussex Coast Limited' tour timings it made for a very long day departing Waterloo at 09.42 (9.42 am) and arriving in London Bridge at 20.54 (8.54 pm). One assumes the passengers packed sufficient food and drink for the day given there were only a few stops with sufficient time (i.e. more then 20 minutes where the train reversed) to find refreshments, albeit on a Sunday, namely; Midhurst, Bognor Regis and Eastbourne. Especially given there was not the plethora of fast food outlets and the Sunday opening hours we see today.

I am surprised not to see any photographs around Lewes, Polegate and Eastbourne given the curved junctions, and Hellingley for the remnants of the Hellingley Hospital Railway closed in 1959.

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

Two views from the Sussex Coast Limited of 24th June 1962 with M7 30055 piloting T9 (30)120 as the train engine. This must be some time after Haywards Heath as seen in the sequence above but before Horam (see below).

These two are taken between Polegate and Horam after the train had reversed at Eastbourne. It's a pity we cannot read the milepost in the second photo taken a bit further around the curve then the first one (there are some trees which are in both photos).

However the milepost does provide a clue. After checking and plotting the still remaining mileposts on the Cuckoo Line Trail** I think this milepost 25½ between Hellingley and Horam (ignore what you see in the photo as at first glance it looks like 97 and there's no milepost with this milage along the Cuckoo Line).

** On the Geograph website there are a number pf photographs of the remaining LBSCR/SR mileposts left on the Cuckoo Line Trail each with a grid reference and location map. It was a case of identifying these on the 1:10,000/1:10,560 1949-73 series map, comparing the topographical features and boundaries.

I have annotated a NLS OS 1:10,000/1:10,560 1949-73 series map to show the location. Horam will be in the north and Hellingley in the south just off the map extract.

 

[oldravendale]

An amazing bit of sleuthing there, Dave @Yorkshire Dave . The evidence will be retained and corrections and updates to commentaries altered accordingly.

These are the final photos taken on the Sussex Coast Ltd. Following these there will be a short intermission while I collate all the details and correct any errors remaining in the descriptions.

I think I have this one out of sequence as I believe it's probably a station stop at some time before Horam but it's rather difficult to work out from Tim's notes added to which I can't get at the original negatives right now. However, it's clearly the M7, 30055, piloting the T9 and, I suggest, somewhere on the Cuckoo Line.

Edit from @Yorkshire Dave : Rotherfield and Mark Cross on the Cuckoo Line. This is after Horam and where the M7 was detached leaving the T9 to take the train to London Bridge.



This one is, However, Horam for certain and T9 (30)120 in the station platform.



A view from the train at an undisclosed location clearly with the M7 and T9 in charge. Could this be Eastbourne?

Edit: Update from @Yorkshire Dave: Approaching Polegate from Eastbourne (looking west). This is a junction station and the lines from Ore, Hastings and Bexhill can be seen coming in from the right.



A final view of 120 and 30055 from the train at an unknown location.

Edit: Confirmation from @Yorkshire Dave : Eastbourne - the large distinctive signal box is in the background right.



Brian

 

[J_F_S]

As an aside, I always thought it quite a coincidence that four successive stations on the Cuckoo line had names begining with vowels :- 'Ailsham, 'Ellingly, 'Oram, 'Eathfield ...

Great thread btw - many thanks for the postings

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

Mystery locations identified ....

I think I have this one out of sequence as I believe it's probably a station stop at some time before Horam but it's rather difficult to work out from Tim's notes added to which I can't get at the original negatives right now. However, it's clearly the M7, 30055, piloting the T9 and, I suggest, somewhere on the Cuckoo Line.

Rotherfield and Mark Cross on the Cuckoo Line. This is after Horam and where the M7 was detached leaving the T9 to take the train to London Bridge.

A view from the train at an undisclosed location clearly with the M7 and T9 in charge. Could this be Eastbourne?

Approaching Polegate from Eastbourne (looking west). This is a junction station and the lines from Ore, Hastings and Bexhill can be seen coming in from the right.

A final view of 120 and 30055 from the train at an unknown location.

Eastbourne - the large distinctive signal box is in the background right.

 

[Martin Shaw]

Dave
Have you any idea where #3299 is, I'm racking my brains here? It looks as thought the trains is crossing at a junction but beyond that and within the confines of the railtour I have so far drawn a blank.
Martin

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

Have you any idea where #3299 is, I'm racking my brains here? It looks as thought the trains is crossing at a junction but beyond that and within the confines of the railtour I have so far drawn a blank.

It's Haywards Heath looking south - the train reversed there after coming up from Bognor Regis via Hove, the Cliftonville Spur and Preston Park.

It must have come into platform 3 (centre right as viewed) then into the headshunt/reversal siding where K 32353 was detached and M7 30055 and T9 120 attached. Then crossed over to platform 2 to head south towards Keymer Junction.

This is an annotated NLS OS 1:1,250 / 1:2,500 1944-73 series map. Green arrival and red departure, all I can assume is the M7 and T9 were waiting in the headshunt/reversal siding at the north end of platforms 3 and 4.

 

[Martin Shaw]

Thanks very much Dave, now you've told me its fairly obvious. I think the yellow arm dummy confused me thinking that HH was a MAS area I dismissed it in my mind.
Regards
Martin

 

[timbowales]

It was a peculiarity of the southern that they kept mechanical discs even when main running signals were multi-aspect. They even had motor-worked discs!

 

[2-Bil]

Brian,
The above tour images stirred some memory fragments. Taken (reluctantly) by an older cousin i recall being impressed by the T9's LSW livery but given the outing's 12 hour timetable it's probable the enthusiasms in the 10 year old mini-me had been eroded by tea-time
Re post 4101- it appears the tours favoured ones are rotating 32353 at Bognor
Re post 4105-the EMU at Bognor appears to be a 2-Bil . The last NOL's were withdrawn in August 1959
Re post 4110-both the trilby hatted official and fireman (?) on the T9 have a proprietorial hand on the single line working staff....i wonder who won?
Respects
Brian W