Brushs Laser Cutting and 3d Printing workbench
- Thread starter BrushType4
- Start date
40126
Western Thunderer
Eastsidepilot
Western Thunderer
Alright, alright! ...tea break over, back on yer 'eads. 
Col.
Col.
lancer1027
Western Thunderer
Any progress on your workbech Phil
Rob
Rob
Jordan
Mid-Western Thunderer
BrushType4
Western Thunderer
Bugger! I think I've gone and got myself a class 66 in EWS livery. 
lancer1027
Western Thunderer
Care to elaborate
BrushType4
Western Thunderer
Page 31 Guild News....
Phill Dyson
Western Thunderer
My deepest condolencesBugger! I think I've gone and got myself a class 66 in EWS livery.
.......
BrushType4
Western Thunderer
Ok, ok! It's a PRMPR built one. I know it is kinda of a mashup of a class 59 kit but anyone know what's good and bad?My deepest condolences
40126
Western Thunderer
Bugger! I think I've gone and got myself a class 66 in EWS livery.
Pictures / link please ?.
Steve
iploffy
OC Blue Brigade
Bugger! I think I've gone and got myself a class 66 in EWS livery.
Bugger being right you can't paint that the right type of BLUE (and yes I have seen that lash up with the yellow ends)
mickoo
Western Thunderer
Where do you want to start, how much time have you got, or more truthfully, how much do you care (how special is your class 66 anorak!)
If it's already built then there's little you can do, if it were in kit form, there'd still be pretty much a lot you couldn't do with out some hefty work.
I think we concluded on Dog Stars thread that it's based on a 59/2 prototype with some changes for 66.
http://www.westernthunder.co.uk/index.php?threads/cl-66-wheels-supplier.1702/ near the bottom and next page, about all you need to know for the different types of 66 if your that worried LOL.
BrushType4
Western Thunderer
Dog Star
Western Thunderer
That discussion and flood of detailed information was a real eye-opener about the current scene, I am grateful to Mick for the effort he put into clarifying the "status" of the PRMPR kit as supplied and what can be done to move the model much closer to a Cl.66. Interesting dicsussions elsewhere (on the Container thread?) since my original question have brought forth a few more interesting snippets....
[1] fuel tanks and silencers are subject to modification within the "66" build programme;
[2] the various Cl.66 users have gone to a swap-meet with a difference... and swapped "66s" to get variants which are more appropriate to their needs. I would be interested in understanding more on this point.
Thank you Mick,
regards, Graham
mickoo
Western Thunderer
Graham, your more than welcome.
Regarding fuel tanks, thats simple, well it is now I know why LOL, intially I thought it was an option for shorter tanks on the phase II, not so, it's a design change for one reason only, weight, a phase II with an original tank will be overweight, why? well lets explain.
It goes back to our old friend emissions, phase I locos are Tier 1 compatable and were designed as such, but like the class 59 quite old in the tooth, when the new TOCs were up for ordering new locos the emissions rules had changed to Tier 2 so EMD were forced to update the class 66 to meet these standards. One of the ways to meet the new standards is to run the engine hotter, actually the easiest way, after that you need to start looking at redesigning the block or messing with engine mapping etc. The down side of running an engine hotter is you need a larger cooler group, thus more weight, not only in physical weight but coolant too, these changes and others resulted in the weight tipping over the permitted axel loading. To claw some of this back EMD went on a weight saving spree and found that the simplest thing to do was make the fuel tank smaller.
The current class 66 has no more design room for upgrades so there will never be any more new class66 from EMD, the current engine and cooler arrangement cannot meet Tier 3 let alone the forthcoming Tier 5 in a few years, EMD (as noted in another thread) are 'in part' moving on from large block engines to Gen sets, quite how they are going to replace their current heavy hauler catalogue with new Tier 5 large blocks will be very interesting indeed.
Silencers, not sure here, I haven't spotted a big difference (that I can remember LOL), I'd guess that Tier 2 locos will have a different arrangement to Tier 1, I will try and rectify that failure of knowledge today if I get the chance, or may even have photos at home of the two current Tier variants.
Swap meet, LOL, nice term, and very apt, I have no idea why the swap meet went ahead, some TOCs dropped Tier 2 locos and gained Tier 1, others were obviously getting rid of high milage Tier 1 for newer Tier 2 locos, I'd have to go back through my notes and see if there are any dates that suggest who 'jumped' first, but I dimly recall DRS were cutting back after loosing some business and put a few into the market place, the DRS locos even if Tier 1 are generally much lower milage than Freightliner and GBRf. Freightliner grabbed the DRS locos, GBRf recovered it's COLAS and Fastline locos and took the surplus from Freightliner who were now over stocked with the DRS imports. I think COLAS then took locos from elsewhere, cannot remember where, maybe DRS that Freightliner did not pick up? I have a spread sheet at home which details all the movements, I'll try and clean it up and make it 'readable' then post it here like the A4 tender list I did.
Perhaps I'd be better starting a bespoke class 66 thread with all this data in, save folks digging around the forums to find bits here and there, that way folks who don't like them won't have other threads cluttered with their information LOL, they may just be boxes on wheels, but all the same, not by a long margin and if your modelling the current scene in any sort of detail, you really have no excuse not to get it right, no expensive trips to NRM for data LOL. If anyone thinks the UK scene is complex, try unravelling the Euro scene, I'm getting there but there are many more TOCs and much more swapping around, let alone the ones from the UK now 'over there', aka EWS in France and Freightliner in Poland and some 59s in Germany.
I am slowly gathering data and dimensions of the real loco and hopefully at some stage work up a decently accurate set of drawings for those wishing to model in the larger scales, maybe with 3D CAD images of bogies and such to aid scratch building, another project in that huge pipeline of projects!
Sorry for the long dialogue, hopefully of some use to someone LOL.
Regarding fuel tanks, thats simple, well it is now I know why LOL, intially I thought it was an option for shorter tanks on the phase II, not so, it's a design change for one reason only, weight, a phase II with an original tank will be overweight, why? well lets explain.
It goes back to our old friend emissions, phase I locos are Tier 1 compatable and were designed as such, but like the class 59 quite old in the tooth, when the new TOCs were up for ordering new locos the emissions rules had changed to Tier 2 so EMD were forced to update the class 66 to meet these standards. One of the ways to meet the new standards is to run the engine hotter, actually the easiest way, after that you need to start looking at redesigning the block or messing with engine mapping etc. The down side of running an engine hotter is you need a larger cooler group, thus more weight, not only in physical weight but coolant too, these changes and others resulted in the weight tipping over the permitted axel loading. To claw some of this back EMD went on a weight saving spree and found that the simplest thing to do was make the fuel tank smaller.
The current class 66 has no more design room for upgrades so there will never be any more new class66 from EMD, the current engine and cooler arrangement cannot meet Tier 3 let alone the forthcoming Tier 5 in a few years, EMD (as noted in another thread) are 'in part' moving on from large block engines to Gen sets, quite how they are going to replace their current heavy hauler catalogue with new Tier 5 large blocks will be very interesting indeed.
Silencers, not sure here, I haven't spotted a big difference (that I can remember LOL), I'd guess that Tier 2 locos will have a different arrangement to Tier 1, I will try and rectify that failure of knowledge today if I get the chance, or may even have photos at home of the two current Tier variants.
Swap meet, LOL, nice term, and very apt
, I have no idea why the swap meet went ahead, some TOCs dropped Tier 2 locos and gained Tier 1, others were obviously getting rid of high milage Tier 1 for newer Tier 2 locos, I'd have to go back through my notes and see if there are any dates that suggest who 'jumped' first, but I dimly recall DRS were cutting back after loosing some business and put a few into the market place, the DRS locos even if Tier 1 are generally much lower milage than Freightliner and GBRf. Freightliner grabbed the DRS locos, GBRf recovered it's COLAS and Fastline locos and took the surplus from Freightliner who were now over stocked with the DRS imports. I think COLAS then took locos from elsewhere, cannot remember where, maybe DRS that Freightliner did not pick up? I have a spread sheet at home which details all the movements, I'll try and clean it up and make it 'readable' then post it here like the A4 tender list I did.Perhaps I'd be better starting a bespoke class 66 thread with all this data in, save folks digging around the forums to find bits here and there, that way folks who don't like them won't have other threads cluttered with their information LOL, they may just be boxes on wheels, but all the same, not by a long margin and if your modelling the current scene in any sort of detail, you really have no excuse not to get it right, no expensive trips to NRM for data LOL. If anyone thinks the UK scene is complex, try unravelling the Euro scene, I'm getting there but there are many more TOCs and much more swapping around, let alone the ones from the UK now 'over there', aka EWS in France and Freightliner in Poland and some 59s in Germany.
I am slowly gathering data and dimensions of the real loco and hopefully at some stage work up a decently accurate set of drawings for those wishing to model in the larger scales, maybe with 3D CAD images of bogies and such to aid scratch building, another project in that huge pipeline of projects!
Sorry for the long dialogue, hopefully of some use to someone LOL.
mickoo
Western Thunderer
Ok a quick spread sheet for the class 66 swap meet, I'll collate all this in a new thread shortly, managed to get some uber detail shots of a phase II this afternoon so I can begin to measure up for drawings.
Ok, original numbers on the left, current numbers on the right, colours are approximations of the real TOC colours, vertically they're in some sort of date order, example, DRS406 went to Advenza a long before the big shuffle last year ending up as Colas 841 when it was involved in the big shuffle.
Freightliner lost nine but gained ten, in reality it was nine as one went to Poland (66411) and 417 may follow at some point.
DRS lost twenty, five of those years ago, fifteen in the big shuffle and gained five.
Colas basically swapped five in and five out.
GBRf gained fourteen.
Regarding silencers I cannot as yet see any visual difference between phase I and II from my current collection of photos.
Hope that helps someone.
Ok, original numbers on the left, current numbers on the right, colours are approximations of the real TOC colours, vertically they're in some sort of date order, example, DRS406 went to Advenza a long before the big shuffle last year ending up as Colas 841 when it was involved in the big shuffle.
Freightliner lost nine but gained ten, in reality it was nine as one went to Poland (66411) and 417 may follow at some point.
DRS lost twenty, five of those years ago, fifteen in the big shuffle and gained five.
Colas basically swapped five in and five out.
GBRf gained fourteen.
Regarding silencers I cannot as yet see any visual difference between phase I and II from my current collection of photos.
Hope that helps someone.
Dog Star
Western Thunderer
So why did some engines retain the number when going from TOC to TOC (eg. Fastline 66301) whilst other engines changed their number (eg. Freightliner 66573)?
Seems that someone forgot to invite EWS to the swapmeet.... or did EWS go and not like the buffet?
regards, Graham
Seems that someone forgot to invite EWS to the swapmeet.... or did EWS go and not like the buffet?
regards, Graham
mickoo
Western Thunderer
Only GBRf and Colas (leased) seem to be bothered with renumbering, GBRf like to keep their locos in the 66/7 bracket and to date have virtually repainted all their acquisitions though 741 is still in un-branded Freightliner green today I noticed.
Freightliner have not repainted any of their locos as far as I know, except maybe 411 that has gone to Poland, the rest are still in DRS colours and most a full set of colours and logos.
It really does depend on the TOC what they do with paint and numbers, some do and some really don't give a hoot what up front looks like which is strange as Freightliner are usually pretty image driven.
EWS didn't bother to turn up at the party and to be fair I suspect no one wants their locos as they are the oldest and probably the highest mileage ones in the 66 fleet, besides, EWS has lots of Euro contracts which sees locos back and forth between the UK and Europe, especially France, so they can shuffle internally so to speak. Euro EWS locos add another spice to the colour scene.
Freightliner have not repainted any of their locos as far as I know, except maybe 411 that has gone to Poland, the rest are still in DRS colours and most a full set of colours and logos.
It really does depend on the TOC what they do with paint and numbers, some do and some really don't give a hoot what up front looks like which is strange as Freightliner are usually pretty image driven.
EWS didn't bother to turn up at the party and to be fair I suspect no one wants their locos as they are the oldest and probably the highest mileage ones in the 66 fleet, besides, EWS has lots of Euro contracts which sees locos back and forth between the UK and Europe, especially France, so they can shuffle internally so to speak. Euro EWS locos add another spice to the colour scene.
Dog Star
Western Thunderer
66 741 was the engine at the head of a short box train that I saw, about four weeks back, at Battledown - see post to the container thread for details of the working provided by Mick. As Mick has written here, what puzzled me at that time was an engine in GREEN without branding - looked rather odd.
regards, Graham